Naturally, every time some news comes out of the field of Israeli archaeology, there has to be some sort of connection to the Bible, whether the Old Testament or the New, often with excited shouts about Jesus soon to follow. In this case, a new debate centers around a potsherd with what is being claimed as the oldest example of Hebrew writing ever found. The Israeli professor who figured out this Hebraic enigma has purportedly come to the conclusion that this scrap proves the Bible was written centuries earlier than modern mainstream scholarship accepts.
In the first place, we are greatly relieved to understand from this report that mainstream scholarship has set the composition of the Hebrew Bible, Old Testament or Tenakh as having occurred initially in the 6th century, during and after the so-called Babylonian Exile. Many millions of believers fervently aver that the Bible was written by the people it claims as its authors: E.g., the first five books or Pentateuch were authored by Moses himself in the 13th century BCE. As demonstrated in such scholarly works as The Bible Unearthed, the earliest provable time when these texts could have been produced was indeed the 6th century BCE. Few others than Christian apologists and evangelicals believe that Moses really wrote the Pentateuch.
While this new discovery may prove that Hebrew was actually physically written down at some point far earlier, possibly as early as the 10th century, from what has been released so far, it certainly does not prove the Bible was in existence by that time or that its authors were those who its purports them to be. In other words, it's still a safe bet that Moses - who is patently a compilation of characters, some mythical - did not write the Pentateuch.
Interestingly, the Bible claims that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, at the end of which it reports his death, saying that "no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day." (Deut 34:1-12) Such language is strongly indicative that this text was written long after Moses purportedly existed! Indeed, it is pretended that the Mosaic law - containing the 10 Commandments and so many other codes, rules and laws pious Jews are supposed to follow - was "lost" for centuries and only discovered "again" during the reign of Josiah.My suggestion in The Christ Conspiracy for this lost-and-found episode was as follows:
In order to explain why the Hebrews kept going after other gods, the biblical writers pretended that the "book of the Law" of Moses had been "lost" and found 600 years later (622 BCE) by Josiah's high priest, Hilkiah...
The tale is obviously fictitious as, in reality, it cannot be explained why, if Moses had been real and had such a dramatic and impactful life, his Law would have been "lost" in the first place.
The truth is that Hilkiah's book of law was created in his time or afterward in order to consolidate the power of the priesthood, in particular that of the Judean Levites.
There is obviously much more to this story...
When Was the Bible Really Written?
By decoding the inscription on a 3,000-year-old piece of pottery, an Israeli professor has concluded that parts of the bible were written hundreds of years earlier than suspected.
The pottery shard was discovered at excavations at Khirbet Qeiyafa near the Elah valley in Israel -- about 18 miles west of Jerusalem. Carbon-dating places it in the 10th century BC, making the shard about 1,000 years older than the Dead Sea scrolls....
The inscription is the earliest example of Hebrew writing found, which stands in opposition to the dating of the composition of the Bible...
According to Israeli newspaper Haaretz, current theory holds that the Bible could not have been written before the 6th century B.C.E., because Hebrew writing did not exist until then.
The penultimate sentence here sounds a bit slippery and slanted towards the conservative tilt of Fox News, as in reality the Hebrew writing in question apparently has nothing to do with the Bible, so it could not "stand in opposition" to the date of said text. Even if the Latin script existed in the first century of the common era, that fact doesn't mean the works of St. Jerome were penned at that time as well - does the existence of Hebrew in the 10th century prove the existence of biblical writings also by then? No, it does not.
The contention that the earliest Hebrew writing existed in the 6th century is incorrect, as there is, for one example, the Siloam inscription, which dates to the 8th century. In this regard, the dating of the Bible has been contingent not upon this notion of Hebrew existing no earlier than the 6th century but in reality upon the circumstances of the Babylonian Exile.
The find is interesting in itself. It is too bad our minds must constantly be turned towards bibliolatry.
Comments (53)
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|2010-01-10 08:02:36 Acharya SYes, they could write about religion - and they likely did. No scholar I've read has claimed that Hebrew wasn't older than the 6th century - they surely know about the Siloam inscription.
When I was learning this material in schools, no one contested that Hebrew was older than even that, because for the most part people still believed that Moses had written the Pentateuch. Therefore, Hebrew was obviously much older than the 6th or 8th centuries!
Indeed, not a few believers have claimed that Hebrew is the oldest language in the world - it is the very language of God!
The Phoenician alphabet was devised in the 11th century at the latest. Considering their proximity - as there was undoubtedly plenty of interaction between the Phoenicians and Hebrews of that era - it doesn't surprise us entirely that Hebrew would have been written at that time.
None of this musing, however, proves that the Bible itself - or any book of it - had been composed during that time as well. The impression that it has been proved based on this find is false.
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|2011-03-16 01:02:34 JAKE WINDHAM - TiredI would appreciate it if people would start thinking instead of feeling. Your scholarship is slanted by your bias and skepticism of the Bible itself. It seems that there are seemingly numerous authors that would disagree with your information that you have written in reference to the time frame. To be true to the scholarship and debate please read the conservative authors that differ from you and then compare with your current information. In the end you should have a summary of facts from both view points that will bring a final result that serves justice to the knowledge of history itself and appropriate scholarship.
Thanks for starting here and later we can get into presuppositions.Like most school children, if you would like to read ahead please began with reading Greg Bahnsen's works.
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|2011-03-15 22:04:55 Acharya SThank you. You are incorrectly assuming that I haven't read "conservative authors." I have, and I have included their opinions in my book Who Was Jesus?, which demonstrates that the Bible is largely a work of fiction, as I have stated above. Since you have not read my work, you yourself have engaged in erroneous presuppositions.
My work is slanted towards facts and truth, rather than pabulum and supernatural fairytales, which themselves apparently appeal to little school children.
Yes, indeed, critical thinking about such patent myths, instead of "feeling Jesus in my heart," would be refreshing.
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For those of you stuck in stupid, the online video zeitgeist- specifically the religion and faith part, is a good primer for the fraud of the three abrahamic faiths, judism, christian, and islam. So get out your D.U. bullets, you fight with the army they give you, and go fight your good fight for your fraud faiths. The world awaits the fraud your savior written in those scripts. What I find extremely enlightening, nobody can seem to live that good life written in their faithful scripts.
Christians are told to 'go forth and multiply' yet they are led by avowed sinners as avowed celibates, why not. The talmud is also enlightening as the gangsterism manifesto it really is. Poor islamics, trying to make good out of a fraudulent work. It can not be done as the parable of 'the good tree and bad tree' clearly implies.
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|2010-01-10 19:47:19 David - Meatwad-Fraud!Hey Meatwad,
It must be you who is stuck in stupid, if you'd truly done your homework you'd know that the zeitgiest ideaology/dogma was created by the kaballahistic zoharian talmudic zionist rabbi's. So I guess your the one using fraud as a means to prove a fraud.
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|2010-01-10 19:44:56 Acharya SSince my work served as some of the inspiration for the first part of Zeitgeist, and since I know the creator Peter Joseph personally, I can attest that what you have said here constitutes an utter load of hogwash.
Perhaps you would actually like to study the subject?
Zeitgeist, Part 1: The Evidence
I take it you are a Christian? Since you obviously have a problem with Jews and Zionists, perhaps you should inquire as to whether or not having God be a Jew (Yahweh), the Jewish Book known as "God's Word" and the son of God as a son of David - or a Jew - just might benefit the Jews in the long run.
Could the New Testament/gospel story, therefore, have been a deliberate contrivance for people with an agenda to make themselves dominant?
Did you ever consider for a moment that perhaps this story was just made up so the Jewish book and god would be accepted by hundreds of millions worldwide, as it has been?
Is Jesus a Myth?
In "A Real Case Against the Jews," Jewish writer Marcus Eli Ravage writes (The Century Magazine, v. 115, no. 3, The Century Co., NY, 1928, p. 346ff):
"Our tribal customs have become the core of your moral code. Our tribal laws have furnished the basic groundwork of all your august constitutions and legal systems. Our legends and our folk-tales are the sacred lore which you croon to your infants. Our poets have filled your hymnals and your prayer-books. Our national history has become an indispensable part of the learning of your pastors and priests and scholars. Our kings, our statesmen, our prophets, our warriors are your heroes. Our ancient little country is your Holy Land. Our national literature is your Holy Bible. What our people thought and taught has become inextricably woven into your very speech and tradition, until no one among you can be called educated who is not familiar with our racial heritage.
"Jewish artisans and Jewish fishermen are your teachers and your saints, with countless statues carved in their image and innumerable cathedrals raised to their memories. A Jewish maiden is your ideal of motherhood and womanhood. A Jewish rebel-prophet is the central figure in your religious worship. We have pulled down your idols, cast aside your racial inheritance, and substituted for them our God and our traditions. No conquest in history can even remotely compare with this clean sweep of our conquest over you."
Get it?
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|2010-01-12 08:07:15 Knowing - responseI truly feel sorry for anyone posting on this site (or any other for that matter) who feel they have a voice or ideology or reasoning for "proving" there is no God.
Either you really DO know Jesus, and He knows you, therefore you DO know God the Father and Holy Spirit as well .. or .. you do NOT! and your choice of not seeking Him out, or answering His call to you, does not negate His presence.
Our self reasonings pro or con do not confirm or negate the fact there is a God, 3 in 1 , 1 yet 3 that created all things. It is about having a relationship with the Father, Son, Holy Spirit ... not about provings!
How about a parent and child. "Okay, if you can PROVE I am your parent, then let's have a relationship, child." What the .. is that sensical? too much talk among ourselves, and not enough just hushing and HUMBLING ourselves ... tossing out our self made ideas of who God is. Same goes for after one knows Him! You continually grow in knowledge and a relationship with the Trinity. Endless wealth of knowledge to learn and experience!!
I have not many words for those who do NOT SEEK GOD YET try to come off as "know it alls" and blab out a bunch of human rhetoric and rehashing of old misleadings... I only have sorrow for you who do NOT seek yet profess to be "wise" / know it alls and mislead thousands. Misery really DOES love company, it seems.
Either you WANT TO KNOW GOD and ask HIM to make Himself known through ONE way, not through many which equates to chaos, and that one way being JESUS (however you choose to spell His name, it doesnt change who He is) ... or ... you do NOT! simple.
Its about an INDIVIDUAL and JESUS .. not all of us bla bla bla bla'ing.
How sad the Creator must be ... same as when a loving parent who tries to help their rebellious child over and over again, enduring pain when they refuse to receive help.
-nuf sed 4 now
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Is there a Zionazi "Jewish" state called "Israel" in Palestine ? Are 90% of "Israeli's" non-semitic, Ashkenazim - Khazar converts to Talmudic "Judaism" ? Seems that the Talmud makes someone "Jewish", not the history of the Hebrew - 'Israelites' - who have never been "Jewish". ...but hey the "Bible is Just a Myth". Don't forget to pay your Taxes to the ZIONAZI BEAST....It's a "Jewish" thingy. [See John 8]...or go back to being programmed by Talmudvision, where if you understood yiddish you'd be ahead of the braindeadgoy herd.....
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|2010-01-10 14:32:48 KlaatuAll this finding "proves" is the myth writing may have taken place earlier than we may have thought. What would be the position of the Bible crowd? Because the OT could have been written earlier it proves snakes can talk? Seas can part? Bushes can talk? Thank you Acharya for your work. It's a breath of fresh air.
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|2010-01-10 17:23:20 Eric - Biblical WritingsI am no expert on the signifance of the writings, I do have my beliefs in God and what not.
However I have read the gnostic texts and have come a realization that the bible as well as the gnostic texts are writen and translated by men, who make mistakes.
Look at our society as a whole.
We have had "experts" running our great nation to and fro. They have law credentials, they have english credentials, some even had medical credentials, but they all seem to be taking America to a level that we have not see before.
The banking sector we have all bailed out, claimed they needed help. They drafted charts, letters and documentation to indicate they needed help to stay solvent. They are credentialed and experts. Now look where we are at.
If we take the bible and utiilize the credentialed experts opinion, then we should understand that a vast portion of it was a fabricated story. But if we use our own opinion, we can surmise with our own fate and history who and what to believe.
When we leave our thoughts to "experts" without making up our own minds, we concede that we can not conclude reasonably.
God is God. No others before him/her, (which ever you believe).
Book or not.
Experts will and do continue to make mistakes. Put your mind at ease and believe what you will in your heart, not in peoples credentials or their preferential reading material.
God will take care of the rest.
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|2010-01-10 19:17:20 Stephen - Let's look at some truth.Meatwad,
You would do well to research a little more before espousing Zeitgeist. It's a propaganda piece that tells only one side. Here is a side few of you are ever exposed to? You know why, because those in control don't want you to know any truth.
http://philologos.org/__eb-tws/intro.htm
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Of course Christian Bible-worshippers will jump on this saying that it proves that the Bible is older than a couple of centuries BC, when it does no such thing. In fact, the inscription, if this isn't just another in a series of proven fakes, doesn't even suggest that the Kingdom of Israel existed. The king was not named and could be any king, and was most likely a Canaanite king than anything else. And we must remember that the brackets [ ] indicate words that were filled in. So the first inscription, which reads "you shall not do [it], but worship the [Lord]", could just as well refer to the worship of Baal, El, Dagon, or even Ashtarte. All this proves is that people could write in Hebrew in the 10th century BCE.
Or does it? Here is a larger sketch of the shard with the letters delineated and, tell me, does this look anything like Hebrew writing to you?
http://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/19413.php?from=151897
Actually this is Aramaic, which was the same as--guess what--the Canaanite alphabet, specifically that of the Phoenicians, until at least the 8th century BC! And what is called the Hebrew square script that we are most familiar with, wasn't developed until the 6th century BC or later. The folks who wrote this article were so intent on proving that their wonderful King David and his wonderful kingdom existed, that they fibbed a bit on the facts by calling it "Hebrew" and that "the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research." It proves no such thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_Alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
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|2010-01-10 23:41:31 Robert Parsons - Still playing the moron card eh Matt?Early Hebrew was *written* in a script very close to Phoenician and thus you're "point" is wrong as usual.
Get off the booze and try thinking a bit more before making a complete ass of yourself once again.
"Believers" = anyone not as dumb or ant-semitic as the flaming retard calling himself Matt Giwer.
ROFL.
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|2010-01-26 21:38:33 Matt Giwer - Mr. Parsons as I live and inhale!As you wish to open with a display of ignorance let me take your first statement.
Quote:Early Hebrew was *written* in a script very close to Phoenician and thus you're "point" is wrong as usual.
Unless there has been a complete reversal among the current crop of "save the OT" volunteers they are still willing to admit Exodus is a myth. I note Hebrews only appear in Exodus and are thus as mythical as Exodus itself including Moses. That mythical status is an unspoken predicate to claims about this inscription.
As the Hebrews are mythical people it is the height of compounded delusion to name a language after them. But for believers it adds a level of verisimilitude with at bottom is nothing more than a circular reference.
The compulsion of believers to identify a script with the name of a mythical people is as rational as identifying Linear A as Atlantean. Then all samples of Linear A can be taken as evidence of the existence of Atlantis.
Let me not stop here. You say "very close to Phoenician" with the unspoken implication that it is not Phoenician. Now that I have disposed of the nonsense of saying a language is properly named after a mythical people let me point out standardization in spelling and grammar across an entire language independent of the prominence of the school is a quite modern idea. The insistence upon identifying what cannot be separated from a regional variation and clearly less than the englishes of Dunedin and London before standardization is just playing into the hands of those who want to attribute it to a mythical people.
As you are well aware Herodotus makes seven mentions of the Palestinians in the mid 5th c. BC and no mention of any Judeans or Jews or anyone who could have been them. The conquests of Alexander are very well documented and if Judea existed in his time it was not worth conquering -- and so far as the evidence goes Josephus made up his story to explain away the absence of mention obvious in his time.
Judeans (the origin of our word Jews) first appear in history with the arrival of Pompey in the region. When Pompey appears everyone is speaking Aramaic and all the writing is in Aramaic. There is no historical evidence of when the Judeans came into existence. We can only say it was between the time of Alexander and of Pompey. We can say when they appear they are speaking Aramaic.
We also note that when Tyre fell to Alexander the center of Phoenician culture moved the Carthage and absent the local influence of Phoenicia it is unsurprising another language took over.
Of course I mean real history not tales of magic and miracles and as such do not bother with bible stories. The first appearance of the old testament stories in real history is in a collection called the Septuagint in Greek. There is no evidence of any prior version of these stories until the appearance of the forged letter of Aristeas and Josephus knows of no better evidence than this forger to claim the Septuagint is a translation. Note also he uses the letter to support the "miraculous" production of a perfect translation. Being a high class priest it is reasonable to assume he found no problem with the translation. However, for unbelievers, there is no evidence the Septuagint it other than the original form of these stories and the "biblical hebrew" versions later creations.
Whether or not one agrees with the Septuagint being the original there is nothing but religious tradition which says it is not. No one knows who created this tradition, when it was created or why it was created.
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|2010-01-10 20:57:36 Robert - Very well doneThis rebutall and the original article are very well reasoned and suitably supported. Nothing raised so far by commentators deserves a response.
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|2010-01-11 01:06:00 JH Chrestos - A perfect book that requires proof... Quite funnyWhy is it that most people need invisible friends? What is so wrong with the world that you live in that you are so desperate for something else? Always living in the past and hoping for the future. Try living in the present some time, It's great. If your answer is that the world and life suck, well shouldn't that be proof that there is no perfect invisible guy? The only valid faith possible is that of a non-personal creator. But even that leads to the question...who created him? then who created his creator?... and so on
Then if you say he has always been...then why didn't you say that about the Universe in the first place? No need to back out one step and make up an invisible guy for this role.
This god nonsense just gives you reasons to hate and the magic book of terror called the Bible justifies your loathing of others and of life.
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|2010-01-11 02:30:08 Benjamin - Jesus Rules!I see these antichristian types always spouting their vehement hatred of us christians on these sites and it pisses me off.
Course, they know that which is why they do it.
They wouldn't want anyone out there to actually study the bible and find out who Jesus really was or what He was trying to tell you.
Jesus gave his life to make sure you knew he wasn't FULL OF sh*t like those anti-christian website posters are.
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|2010-01-10 20:58:01 Acharya SWhat "vehement hatred?" There's no such thing here at all - but you, in your evident agitation and aggression, are apparently looking for a reason to be "pissed off."
Just stating the facts about the history of a religion or cult does NOT constitute "vehement hatred."
If Jesus is God and is eternal, then he didn't give his life at all.
In the meantime, hundreds of millions of REAL PEOPLE have given their lives in the name of religious fanaticism, at the hands of angry, violence-prone individuals who are always seeing "vehement hatred" where there is none.
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|2010-01-11 14:37:45 DaveFrankly, your type give me great pause when contemplating the future of our country, our civilization, our planet.
Your inability to comprehend your fervent adulation of an ancient sun myth that will forever keep you chained to a past full of ignorance is frightening.
In other words, that stink of sh*t you detect emanates from you, bubba.
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|2010-01-11 03:04:48 Arhata - Oldest Hebrew.....The bible is nothing but an ancient book for ancient people, some who may live to today. Less than 10% of Christians know crap about the contents of the bible. Any intelligent person has no more need for it than a garbage can. On second thought, the garbage can is much more useful! it's revolving contents are going to make life better than any holy book that doesn't empty out for new 'stuff'.
Never heard of anyone who need the bible for 'self love' and, without it no book is worth cutting down millions of trees. I've got hundreds of books on my shelf useful than any bible
Praise Allah or, anyone who's more into self love than you are.
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|2012-04-14 14:53:11 Midgetargaka:
Funny you do many things that are found in the hebrew code of law without even thinking about it yet you seem to proclaim it is a worthless book. You wash your hands before meals, you eat certain foods cooked etc. While that might seem insignificantl the fact is you are influeced by it and have been all of your life. You call it garbage why?? Could it be because people have tried to convince you there is a deeper meaning to it but you chose to avoid facing somethings within yourself that you are not ready to address.Doesn't matter. Just because you chose to try to argue with people of faith doesnot make you the right person. The best way to prove a person wrong is to let yourself experiece what they believe and then see if there is nothing to what they believe God calls them to. One cannot argue against their enemy if they themselves do not understand them. Something to think about. I pray for you that even if you don't come to understand us that perhaps you learn how to be more gracious in your dialogue with others. WE are only on this earth a short time and I believe each of us has a piece of the puzzle even if it means causing others to question what they believe. That may be your role.
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|2010-01-11 07:02:20 Sean The King aka jesus matrai - big G or petty gGod is not a jew but he is an a**hole
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Zietgiest was revisionist history supported by the illuminati who are trying to destroy religion and religious thought worldwide. They foment confrontation between groups of people and advocate war. The new world order can only come to be if the notion that jesus existed is destroyed. This is their plan to destroy the very person that the christ consciousness certainly was. Jesus overcame death, proving that anyone and everyone can do the same, what would happen if the rulers that think they be could no longer take your life for whatever reason?? The battle has been on to destroy the law.
Jew, or Habiru meant wanderer, no bloodline, no mass group of people connected by blood. They were nomads meaning from any where and any tribe, therefore they were considered the low life, all they had was the law that said they were individuals and equal before god.
This idea is being destroyed by the people in power now. The constitution of the united states is being subverted every single day, and there are fake illegal wars to kill and maim people who refuse to give up their religion in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and now Yemen. It's a disgusting display and the end result will be an all out war of humanity destroying itself.
The Habiru wrote their story because they believed that if the law prevailed they would have done their job in the face of the ignorance of mankind. We know men are backward ignorant and cannibals, we only need look at the Monarchy of England to see this, The law was given to the wanderer so that he might destroy the power of the bloodline, the draconian or reptilian disease that has infested mankind.
The 'jew' was labeled by Josephus and it meant wanderer, not bloodline, lowlife as in nazorean, no roots, no crooked kingdoms, just taking the law and shoving it into the face of the ignorant man, and saying here read it and save yourself, or not.
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|2010-01-11 18:06:02 Acharya SMore babbling nonsense - "Zeitgeist" has NOTHING to do with the "Illuminati" or any other agency, whether esoteric or exoteric. It was composed by ONE individual using a computer and some books.
It is absolutely against the status quo to see the Jesus MYTH become exposed to the masses - who do you think has worked so hard all these centuries impose Christianity on humanity?
Do you realize that it required the Catholic Church to slaughter millions of people and steal their land in order to make Christianity a world religion?
There was nothing supernatural about its rise, and there is nothing supernatural about its demise based on scientific inquiry and reason.
The Christian Taliban is really out in force these days!
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|2010-01-11 13:18:39 Homer MakeDonskiHi everyone.
I would like o know does someone already has translated that text.
According to letters used at the text ,they look very similar to ancient Macedonian letters.
http://files.myopera.com/ancientmacedoniansscripts/DATA/allmacedonianl ettersbig_01.jpg
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|2010-01-11 14:19:36 Adam Neira - G-d loves Truth !What an amazing find.
This should help silence some of the Tanach sceptics out there. However facts to them are like pearls to swine. So many people have no idea what is going on at the moment, and have no historical bearings. Of course King David existed !
P.S. The patrilineal line via Solomon is very important as I learnt in 2002...
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|2010-01-11 14:21:21 Dave - Just another weak attemptPile another fable of "biblical validity" from our worm-tongued msm on the trash heap.
There is not one shred of a link between this pottery shard inscription and any validation of biblical myth. None, zero.
The goal here is obvious, and Acharya S is correct to point out the syntax contortions the article goes through to deceive the lay reader.
It fails miserably.
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To all of you who think you have discovered some kind of flaw here..
the science of the Bible speaks for itself.
Creation science D-E-M-O-L-I-S-H-E-S your arguments.
Some zionist atheist crowing about "judaism" dominating western culture means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me.
My God existed for eternity, long before Israel, the Jews and even these atheist false Jews. And He even existed before Satan, who is the originator of these quacky Zeitgeist videos.
To all of the Zeigeist folks, you still have a serious problem.
1.) Where did this great big universe come from?
2.) Where did the extremely complex life on this earth come from?
3.) And why do the events of this world, including the modern day, seem to line up so flawlessly with Bible prophecy?
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|2010-01-11 12:16:38 Acharya S
I see!
Here's what you are saying:
"My God is bigger and better than yours - and I'll insult you into believing me! In fact, if you don't follow my wacky cult, you are of Satan and evil!"
By the way, no one here is arguing for or against "Creation Science," so yours is a red herring.
Even if Creation "Science" were correct, how does that disprove "Zeitgeist?" (Part 1, I'm assuming.) How do you know that GOD wasn't the guiding hand behind ZG, pushing it globally so tens of millions have seen it?
Indeed, She was.
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|2010-01-11 20:52:49 Gene - It's the old problemPeople trying to one up the other, a struggle that may destroy us. The old fertility cults did this in the form of the fat woman, and even fatter woman, on the feminine side the male side is more obvious with the phallic stone or sun ray totems, mines bigger than yours, what was that in Space Balls your shwartz is bigger than my shwartz! My the power of the shwartz be with you! Any way they slaughtered each other over who had the bigger totem, male or female.
But really people all things in the universe is sacred, accept for lack of knowledge and being lazy, that is just weak!
It's sad to see this still happening over and over people playing religion war, with no end and never looking past their own programing!
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|2010-01-11 21:37:04 Capt Canuck - re: Creation science crushes your arguments.George wrote:To all of you who think you have discovered some kind of flaw here..
the science of the Bible speaks for itself.
Creation science D-E-M-O-L-I-S-H-E-S your arguments.
Some zionist atheist crowing about "judaism" dominating western culture means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me.
My God existed for eternity, long before Israel, the Jews and even these atheist false Jews. And He even existed before Satan, who is the originator of these quacky Zeitgeist videos.
To all of the Zeigeist folks, you still have a serious problem.
1.) Where did this great big universe come from?
2.) Where did the extremely complex life on this earth come from?
3.) And why do the events of this world, including the modern day, seem to line up so flawlessly with Bible prophecy?
George,
You're not serious are you? Biblical "science" is laughable! This "Creation Science" you speak of, is it the same science that:
- Would have us a believe that some invisible sky-dude created the entire Universe in six days? Even if a "day" for Dog is 1000 peon years, bro that's still not enough time for Electricity to do its organizing thing. And BTW where did He hang out before there was a Universe?
- Tells us that four-footed birds exist(ed).
- That a massive flood covered the ENTIRE Earth, but thankfully, a drunk with zero ship building knowledge builds a boat that contains at least two examples of every single sentient being on the whole surface of the Earth? Really?!
I could go on, but I grow tired. But to answer your questions:
1) Universe has always been here (Sorry Big Bangers!)
2) Life's building blocks are being constantly being created by the Universe's ongoing, eternal processes. Combine some water, light, warmth, and electricity on a nice stable planet and over time, life sorts itself out.
3) They "line up so flawlessly" because the holy books are written in parables in order to be able to mold important events to sound like they were predicted by the Bible. Just like Nostradamus. You could take lot of his quatrains and apply them to any period's important events.
Anyways, organized religion is a cancer on the world. It's a way to feed off of people's fear of death and ignorance of how things actually work. It's easy to attribute everything to doG. It's the easiest cop-out in the world.
Electricity is key! Want enlightenment? Learn about Nikola Tesla!
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|2012-04-14 15:12:30 MidgetCapt Canuck
Sorry to bust your bubble. But just because you think you understand how things are put together does not mean you have lived since the beginning of creation. If you are so smart then why don't you create a world and prepare yourself for your life after this one. Why because you can't. Collectively we are discovering how this world was made and who created it. Somehow you seem to act that just because you don't understand other peoples theories they must be wrong. I hate to say it but you are defiinitely in the minority. There are more believers than non believers. Just because we listen to you and let you talk does not make you believable. WE need a sense of humor in our life every so often and today you have made a lot of people laugh. Thank you.
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|2010-01-11 22:10:53 Ian - Ignorance has dominated!To all those who are ignorant and obviously do no research for themselves i'd say about 90% of the bible, talmud, etc. originates from Ancient Egypt. This fact is undisputable for any who picks up and reads Coming Forth by Day(The Book of The Dead). If you actually read the bible it states this multiple times. Jesus talks about learning there himself which is where he had most of his education.
Also the jews now in so called Israel are not religious at all,(At least the government and high Rabbi's).There is also plenty of evidence that Ancient Egyptians got alot from the Sumerians and/or Atlanteans. Another fact is that Egypt was very peaceful, progressive and far more advanced than scholars would like us to think. It is very important to know that OUR MEDIA, EDUCATION, ETC. HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY PROFESSIONAL LIERS. No matter what religion they claim they are satanists. Any person of any faith who is a moral person senses this extremely.
Even though i am the type of person who would promote truth exposing media and anything righteous I agree totally. ZEITGEIST IS A FULL ON PROPAGANDA FILM disguised as truth. The devil is a master of disguise. That movie promotes terrorism. Whatever "terrorism" is. Since they can make anyone a "terrorist" these days.
One more point i would like to make is what does Jesus on a cross represent? The message is stand up for good and whats right and spread truth, this is what we will do to u. But anyone who is truly enlightened in the truth knows that those stories are really symbolic and have a deep impact on our psyches as much, maybe more today than they had when they made up about two thousand years ago. I was baptised catholic and love all people but now I practice Ancient Egyptian which mirrors all the good of all religions, not the evil like scholars today try to make all of us think. IT IS VERY HARD TO DISCERN WHAT IS TRUTH NOWADAYS BECAUSE WE ARE BEING FLOODED WITH OCEANS OF LIES. That is in my opinion the REAL climate change that is occurring. WAKE UP PEOPLE BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!
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Dear Sir,
I strongly believe that Jews are the cancer of the human race. I curse them several times a day.
Jews have been tormenting, harassing, persecuting, incarcerating, torturing, and killing innocent Palestinian men, women, and children, since 1948.
They have stolen 83% of the Palestinians’ land, and continue building illegal Israeli settlements, on the remaining Palestinian land.
Unfortunately, the unethical Anglo-Saxon nations have turned a blind eye to this evil injustice.
The United Nations have issued dozens of resolutions against Israel, but no action was taken to enforce them!
There is no need to despair. God is more powerful than the Jews and their immoral friends.
The world has 1.3 BILLION Muslims. Muslims pray 5 times a day. If all those Muslims ask God to remove the Jewish cancer from our planet, I am sure that He will rectify the problem.
God abhors injustice and always listens to prayers. He also allows fair, and justified, curses to be fulfilled. (The “butcher” Ariel Sharon has been in a coma since 2006).
Do not underestimate the power of prayer and the awesome destructive force of justified curses.
The sooner you unleash your “God given” powers, the sooner Palestine will be liberated.
So, tell your Muslim brothers, and sisters, to curse the satanic Jews (and their unethical friends), and ask God to destroy them SOON.
God bless you.
Len Giles
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|2010-01-12 02:17:39 Acharya SI passed this vile rant through in order to demonstrate what a mentality we are up against.
First of "Jews" are not the biggest problems on the planet - a relative handful are, ditto with Christians and Muslims. Obviously, not all Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, secularists, et al., are horrible people who should be assailed.
There are certain ideologies and traditions that cause or foster bad behavior - and Islam is possessed of all of them, with a far bigger group of rabid, dangerous cultists than is possessed by Judaism. Islamic law is Old Testament Mosaic Law, so what are you wishing for with your hateful diatribe?
"'God-given' powers?!" You are out of your cotton-picking mind. The power of Islam comes from hatred, oppression and violence - and this is what you you call "God-given?"
And you also are clueless that many Arabs do not give a hoot about "the Palestinians" - they are using this issue in order to exploit the world.
'Next To Jews, We Hate Palestinians The Most' - King Fahd
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|2010-01-12 02:57:55 JH Chrestos - George invokes the God of the GapsFor George and all Creationists:
Even Michael Behe disagrees with you and he's a staunch creationist.
Claim CA100:
It is inconceivable that (fill in the blank) could have originated naturally. Therefore, it must have been created.
This argument, also known as the argument from ignorance or "god of the gaps," is implicit in a very many different creationist arguments. In particular, it is behind all arguments against abiogenesis and any and all claims of intelligent design.
Response:
Really, the claim is "I can't conceive that (fill in the blank)." Others might be able to find a natural explanation; in many cases, they already have. Nobody knows everything, so it is unreasonable to conclude that something is impossible just because you do not know it. Even a noted antievolutionist acknowledges this point: "The peril of negative arguments is that they may rest on our lack of knowledge, rather than on positive results" (Behe 2003).
The argument from incredulity creates a god of the gaps. Gods were responsible for lightning until we determined natural causes for lightning, for infectious diseases until we found bacteria and viruses, for mental illness until we found biochemical causes for them. God is confined only to those parts of the universe we do not know about, and that keeps shrinking.
References:
Behe, Michael. 2003. A functional pseudogene?: An open letter to Nature. http://www.arn.org/docs2/news/behepseudogene052003.htm
Further Reading:
Drummond, Henry. 1904. The Lowell Lectures on the Ascent of Man, Glasgow: Robert Maclehose and Co. Ltd., ch. 10. http://www.ccel.org/d/drummond/ascent/ascent14.htm
Van Till, Howard J. 2002. Is the Creation a 'right stuff' universe? Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith 54(4): 232.
As far as the prophesies of the Bable coming to fruition, nuts like you have been making that claim continuously for the past several thousand years or so. Even the fictional Jesus in the NT claimed that he would come again while those listening were still on earth. That did not occur nor can it ever.
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|2010-01-12 09:54:14 Jeff HansenThis article seems to have brought all sorts of loons & wackos out of the woodwork. We've gotten the barbarians of Islam & the creation "science" fanboys all in one spot for our amusement.
" I strongly believe that Jews are the cancer of the human race. I curse them several times a day."
I'm a secular man with a decent amount of Jewish ancestry & I'm touched that you keep a total stranger like me in your thoughts & prayers every day. You're a fine example of that charming Muslim stereotype that's proven true more frequently every month.
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I find the whole controversy amusing.
who wrote the Gita? There are Egyptian texts going back to 5000BC? Where are the Glyphs for anyone else, look at the Arks, Menorahs that the Egyptians depict on their tombs and its pretty obvious where the ritual Altar Furniture and tools were derived from for Jews, Catholics, etc. So who do you believe? Believe your eyes and where it was all started Egypt Then it all makes sense, everyone took what they liked and fitted it to their purposes as all of us do.
Read the Epic of Gilgamesh and find out where your flood story started.
Until you can demonstrate anything before Egypt and Mesapotamia your
Bible is just a sequel to the original stories.
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|2010-01-12 19:44:34 Rick
When in doubt (or pushed into a corner)--spout dogma.
Knowing --This is a page for people who like facts not fairy tales.
Either stick to the subject or please refrain from adding worthless posts that don't advance the conversation.
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|2010-01-13 00:31:16 josephine public - nice jobJH you nailed it again. I suspect that the person that gave you a thumbs down is personally offended because you rocked their world with reason. As we all know, reason and rational discussion is diametrically opposed to religion.
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|2010-01-13 00:43:45 josephine public - come on peopleBTW who gave JH a thumbs down? It's pure information without a bias. Sure he has a bias towards reality, but just look at the info. It's freakin great. Even a creationist agrees with him. lol
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|2010-01-26 21:39:53 Matt Giwer - re: Nah, I don't think soDragon Lady wrote:
...
Actually this is Aramaic, which was the same as--guess what--the Canaanite alphabet, specifically that of the Phoenicians, until at least the 8th century BC! And what is called the Hebrew square script that we are most familiar with, wasn't developed until the 6th century BC or later.
The squared script is Aramaic script. Again, calling it "hebrew" is nonsense not just because the Hebrews are as mythical as the Atlanteans but also because we know it is Aramaic script.
One we drop the baseless idea of the bible stories having been created in the 6th c. BC there is no reason to imagine the Aramaic script was invented in that century. By actual find or historical mention the oldest known version of this biblical Hebrew in Aramaic script is found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is still no evidence biblical Hebrew is anything other than an invented liturgical language.
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|2010-02-16 17:02:39 GarzulAnd what we can say about: Mesha Stele, Tel Dan Stele, The "Black Obelisk" of Shalmaneser III and other proofs?
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|2010-02-27 13:20:24 GarzulOk, responses are here: http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3109
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|2010-05-06 05:55:13 Dr. Ed - So full...Do you all really believe what you're writing? You have taken reason to an unreasonable level. Nonsensical rantings, musings, and ferociously poor scholarship in every post. Wow, how sad. The saddest part is that none of you seem to have any desire to escape your own cynicism. More than that...you all seem to want everyone else to be just as cynical as you. And so, so closed minded you are. When you can explain to me how a leg grows back before your eyes, or how someone that was pronounced dead, after a couple of hours w/out any pulse, brain activity, etc. comes back to life, how someone who is ravished with cancer winds up cancer free 3 hours after the scans are taken, etc, etc, etc, I'm sure all of you on this site can reason your way through everything that has any supra-natural element...what a pity. You have lost sight of the human will, lost sight of the very capacities that you have been given with which to reason...you have become your own god, yet without any power. You may choose not to believe, and deny your very spirit that which it cries for, but you do not have the reasoning faculties to reason away the existence of a power that is not natural, yet manifests Itself within time and space to do good. Although I'm sure you will try to marginalize my words, categorize my beliefs, and criticize that which you don't even come close to understanding...yes, what a pity...and the Power that wrote your DNA had so much more in store for you
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|2010-05-06 05:58:00 Dr. Ed - Published after approval...how interesting...So you even filter each post on this site so that it can be controlled? Surely, those of you posting on this site have such extensive reasoning capabilities that you shouldn't have to filter someone's post before publishing it? O, don't tell me that you have moral concerns, Ha What hypocrisy.
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|2010-05-06 17:49:32 PaulineDr. Ed, nice false assumption ya got going on there. the fact is that there are too many spammers as well as people who post malicious insults and name-calling. I guess you've never had a blog or a forum or ever seen one before.
Try to actually THINK before making as ass of yourself, Ed.
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Hello, I thought I would chime in here and reveal to you the ultimate proof of the Bible and its writing.
Here is a small book demo about it:
http://www.insearchoftheuniversaltruthpublisher.com/files/Pictures_and _explanation.pdf
Enjoy
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|2011-04-24 22:18:00 Hakike - And Finally the Truth!Guys this is really much more simple than you think. Firstly Hebrews call their own alphabet Ashuri. This translates into english as Assyrian. Yes there is still Assyrians about and still using this name. This is of course an error in itself as really their alphabet is jusr as the Neo-Assyrian derived from Aramaic. However since Assyria was so strong at the time, it is not surprising they stamped their own name on the language. Second, why so many similarities in the Old testament to the Sumerian/Babylonian/Assyrian mythologies? Well it's simple, upon the release of the Jews by Cyrus they wandered back to Israel empowered with the most foremost intelligence of that time. They also brought along many myths and stories of Gods etc. Who would doubt them? Not many did, the stories where bought. By the way, why is the garden of Eden in Assyria? The concept of sin, where does it come from? Laws/codes? Worshipping bulls? Please guys, it's like watching a modern remake of an old movie. In a sense the lot of us are still worshipping Marduk's teachings. But disguised into something else...
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|2011-07-27 07:29:02 Robert Gamboe - Zeitgeist - Astronomical ErrorsI watched Zeitgeist on YouTube the other day (“Complete Original '07 Zeitgeist With 2010 Updates by: Peter Joseph”), and found it to be rather interesting. There are three things in the movie which caught my attention.
* First, the movie states that on December 24th, the star Sirius aligns with the stars in Orion's belt (19:40).
* Second, it states that during December 22-24, the sun resides in the vicinity of the constellation Crux, or Southern Cross. In fact, the movie shows a drawing of the sun being VERY close to Crux on those dates (21:2
.
* Third, it states that when the sun rises on December 25th, it is possible to draw a straight line from Orion's belt, through Sirius and to the sun (19:55).
Now I know a little bit about astronomy, and these statements didn't quite sound right. So I ran my Starry Night Pro Plus astronomy software, and checked it out. I set it for Jerusalem in 4 BC, Jesus supposed birth year.
Guess what? The three statements above are COMPLETELY FALSE!
* First, while it's true that Sirius aligns with Orion's belt on December 24th, the fact is that it is ALWAYS aligned that way. The stars do wander around, but it takes many thousands of years before it's noticeable. Over the course of a year, Sirius and Orion are always in the same exact position relative to each other and the other stars!
In fact, from 2000 B.C. to 2000 A.D, Sirius moved less than two degrees! And most of the stars in that area of the sky move much more slowly than Sirius does! Keep an eye on Sirius through the winter and you’ll see that it doesn’t change position relative to Orion or any other constellation or star.
* Second, during December, the sun is on the OPPOSITE side of the stellar sphere from Crux! While the sun is in the general vicinity of Crux (and Orion) around JUNE 25th, it is NEVER in or near Crux, as the movie states. In fact, the ecliptic (the sun's path through the sky over the course of a year) doesn't come anywhere close to Crux. If it did, then Crux would probably be one of the signs of the Zodiac, which it isn't. A quick glance at a star chart will confirm this.
* Third, on December 25th, the sun is NOWHERE near Orion (or Crux)! It is, in fact, in the general vicinity of Scorpio, which is almost exactly on the OPPOSITE side of the stellar sphere, as I stated above. That's why Orion is a WINTER constellation. If the sun was near Orion in December, you wouldn't be able to see Orion AT NIGHT in December, now would you?
If you draw a line from Orion’s belt though Sirius to the sun, as depicted in the movie, the sun’s position will be somewhere between the constellations of Canis Major (the Great Dog) and Puppis (The Poop or Stern Deck), neither of which are in the ecliptic or the Zodiac.
The scientific facts I have presented do not, of themselves, disprove the other points made in Zeitgeist concerning Christianity. They do, however, cast the people who helped produce the movie in a very bad light, especially since it would have been SO EASY to do the necessary research. Wikipedia.org is a good place to start. Or a good astronomy program!
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|2011-07-27 13:24:40 PatRobert Gamboe, first of all, Acharya's blog here doesn't even mention Zeitgeist (however, I realize others brought it up, but it is a distraction from the topic at hand).
Second, you're confused &/or blatantly biased against the movie and don't know what you're talking about and don't know how to use the Starry Night astronomy program, which I own.
Third, in your 3 complaints you concede to your own 1 and to 3 sort of, making your own claim that "it's true that Sirius aligns with Orion's belt on December 24th." What you skipped was the part in Zeitgeist where he says they, "POINT TO THE PLACE OF THE SUNRISE," not necessarily to the sun itself or one would no longer be able to see the stars since the sun had risen, fruity - can't see the stars during the day!!! Please try to use your brain before launching attacks about things you have zero understanding. With such absurd comments like that don't even try to pretend to be any sort of astronomer.
So, your only "apparent" legit complaint is with your number two on the southern crux, which did not come from Acharya's work. Your complaint demonstrates that you misunderstood what the narrator of Zeitgeist was actually saying and that you simply don't know what you're talking about. For example:
"from 2000 B.C. to 2000 A.D, Sirius moved less than two degrees!"
That is not at all what he was even talking about demonstrating that you didn't understand. He was talking about the sun. So much for your "scientific facts."
Southern Cross at the Winter Solstice
I suggest you give this thread a full read
Read page 60 #29 from the New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)
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If they could write law, and correspondence, they also could write about religion and history.
The fact that this is Hebrew, and that a king is mentioned is highly relevant to the Old Testament.