Freethought Nation

Religion ultimately arises from humanity's need to make sense of the realm we find ourselves immersed within. To this end observation of the patterns and cycles of existence revealed influential relationships between Earth and the heavens.

Add to this the quietude and simplicity of an earlier existence where one who listened would hear the music of the spheres and/or that quiet inner voice and inner vision... something we now seek to recapture despite the buzz of our modern lives.

The ancients knew of the nature of existence as it was a reflection of themselves.. Thoth or Hermes' "As is above so below" here comes to mind. Ths wisdom was and is still taught in schools once known as Mystery Schools.. those initiated were those who had rid themselves of base desire and had refined their substance to a purity which enabled them to recieve the truth of existence. This teaching was reflected in numerous cultures not limited to Palestine.

The Essenic community at Qumram may have been such a school arising from the Jewish tradition. At the time in Palestine were groups known as Gnostics, who also had their cosmologies and ritual practices. Perhaps Christianity is an amalgam of some of these traditions, over or underlaid by Paul's mystical revelation on the road to Damascas. Perhaps the florecence of Spiritual Ideas a that time when the Jewish tribes were wrestling with nationhood and Roman domination gave rise to the need to bring the messiah figure to personification.

Reading the Christian New Testament one observes both the inconsistencies within the synoptic Gospels and between these and Paul's "Christ in You." This teaching could be an attempt to revise the earlier and universal "Mystery Teaching" of humanity's oneness with the primal originator...

The obvious inconsistency is the older mysteries insistence on repeated Earthly incarnations against Christianity's domatized insistence on the redemption in a single lifetime via the blood sacrifice of Calvary.

There is much to consider both from a historical interest viewpoint but more importantly from the viewpoint of how did we get to where we are now and to what extent did Christianity's hijacking the discussion lead to man's current ruthless domination of the Earth, including those who's cultural tradition was/is considered inimical to Western Mercantile (Christian) interests...

and it's not changed yet as far as I can see.. if there was one such as Jesus of Nazereth and he decided to return I wonder on his comments about the current merchants in the temple?

Greg wrote, ..."Christianity's hijacking the discussion..."

And, ..."inimical to Western Mercantile (Christian) interests..."

It seems to me that:

1. There are a lot of Buddhists in the world that would be mystified about Christianity hijacking anything, and

2. as far as Western Mercantile interests go, could we be talking about Jewish mercantilism, much the more powerful kind, than Christian?

While you can be a great scholar and researcher, you cannot keep ON on debunking other religions as pagan cults. Krishna is and will be be God. Their is ample physical evidence for His existence back in India. and it is very clear Christianity was copied from the writings of Hinduism. Buddha was no pagan or conman. Therefore, you should correct your books accordingly. Jesus was only a holy mortal man and died a natural death just like all the previous holy men in all cultures. Krishna died a physical death and never "resurrected" If you want to debunk Christianity, keep Hinduism and Krishna out of your debunking theories. You may convince your ex-Christian folks, but not us. Hinduism has been the oldest religion on earth, with all your so -called pagan cults and religion copying borrowing and modifying to suit their silly interests.

If you're talking about me, I obviously disagree with your views as to the historicity of Jesus, Krishna and Buddha. Hence, I will not be changing my books to reflect your opinions.

On the contrary, I will continue to bring forth even more of the massive evidence showing that these individuals were MYTHICAL figures.

"Buddha was no pagan or conman. Therefore, you should correct your books accordingly."

I have never said Buddha was a "pagan or conman," so there is no need for me to correct my books.

"Jesus was only a holy mortal man and died a natural death just like all the previous holy men in all cultures."

There exists no credible, scientific evidence for this claim.

"Krishna is and will be be God. Their is ample physical evidence for His existence back in India."

That is an expression of faith, not fact. I could just as easily insert the name "Hercules" in your contentions here - and then I could insist that everyone stop talking about Hercules as if he were a myth. There certainly is NOT "ample physical evidence" for the existence of a blue-skinned, superhuman Indian man who is the eternal Lord of the cosmos.

"Krishna died a physical death and never 'resurrected.'" That is a matter of semantics, since he clearly is alive again after dying physically - you just said he is the eternal God of the universe. He is therefore ALIVE after dying - that's a form of "resurrection." Whether or not he occupied a physical body again is immaterial, although, according to Hindu tradition, he/Vishnu will certainly be born again into a new body with the coming Kalki avatar.

If you do not enjoy reading my work exposing these facts, you are welcome not to read it. It is apparent from your comments that you have not even read it in the first place.

Others may appreciate knowing the facts about religion, rather than being intimidated by believers in the supernatural.

Thank you.

P.S. Hindus do not own any religion, including that of the figure called Krishna. I am a member of the human species and can avail myself of knowledge from any culture. I am also a free person, which means I can share that knowledge with others. Thank you.

No doubt the zionist thieves want to discredit Christianity, as well as Islam. They stole the Dead Sea Scrolls from Jordan. Jordan wants them back. Meanwhile, the zionists are making money on the display of these scrolls in Canada, and other tours......

So, you don't like Christians? Maybe you don't like Moslems? Maybe you only like Jews?

What is it you are trying to prove? That Israel has any claim to the Dead Sea Scrolls? Forget it, they stole it, plain and simple.

I don't trust you. People so intent on an agenda, esp one of such a political nature are suspect.

The Old Testament points forward to the coming of Christ. What strengthens my faith is the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of testimonies of sincere people(no drugs/mental health issues), that have had supernatural experiences,(Paul-Road to Damascus), I personally know people who have heard the voice of God, have had visions,dreams,Have witnessed demons in their homes,have heard audible voices in their cars while driving telling them to stop or turn at a certain moment, saving them from head on crashes. MAN has corrupted the world as always, and when I say man, I mean the selfishness of man and when Christ returns, those responsible will be punished if they don't repent and live by the laws of God! Let's face it the so-called "Christian" churches of today are not Christian at all. The largest of all Roman Catholicism is probably the least Christian of all. If people knew their history AND their bible, they would know that it is nothing but Babylonian sun worship/Pagan Roman god with a thin veneer of Christianity on top to decieve people. That's not to say that there aren't true Christians within that church that God will "sift" out when He returns. We can also toss the FAKE, GREEDY televangelists that preach the prosperity messege and live in luxury. As the bible says,"narrow is the gate that leads to Heaven."

this article further backs my assumption that an absolute and accurate understanding of the Bible ( and reinterpretations such as the Quran) may likely have all been tainted by man's need to make "sense of it all" through out the ages.

The current version of the Bible, is that of the included by agreement by (tainted) committee in 4th century.... not any direct correlation to the events 400 yrs earlier.... by scholars that still thought the world was flat... and we are expected to believe it is the final and accurate Word?

So the possibility of cut-n-paste version is not out of the question.

Thank you for the example of Christian hate speech and spiritual terrorism.

Unfortunately for your cause, it is highly unlikely that I or any of my supporters will be terrorized into your cult of the sky-god bogey man waiting to punish us.

How would this sound?


What is the difference here? One is a Greek myth and the other a Jewish one. I reject them both as "history," and I cannot be coerced by fear into believing in either or any other myth.

Isaiah 45:7 says;

"I am the Lord and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil; I, Lord, do all these things."

The "Devil" or Satan , in one sense, is a plural term, just as Elohim, one of the original names of God is. Satan is comprised of all the falllen angels, or gods, and Elohim is comprised of all the heavenly gods, under the communal higher self God.

The other sense of the term Satan is actually the influence of God himself, acting merely as an usher to encourage us to devote our aspirations in a certain direction. Certain uncomfortable planes of conscious do exist possibly purely as chaos beyond order, experienced as a kind of hell, revealed in a kind of prompting fashion, though this should not ever be interpreted as an experience that is eternal. Many planes of consciousness do exist that have the seeming quality of eternitude, and infinitude, but they can be experienced fleetingly one after the other and are not actually "eternal". Eternal hell is just a bogeyman threat. No loving God would torture people for ever and ever, it would be mindless sadism and it would serve no purpose, all three Abrahamic faiths use this vindictive press gang method and cause much mental illness and physical suffering in the process. I hope that you can gain the confidence to become free from fear of the violent threats of "punishment" promised to those who "stray from the path". Love love, love beauty, become love, become beauty. mothman777

Careful scrutiny of the Dead Sea Scrolls along with Gnostic literature lend to the idea that there were many sects of Judaism spread throughout the Greco Roman world. The historical Jesus was a part of this movement but not its founder ultimately initiating a schism that separated what we think of as Christianity from the extremely conservative Essene sect-he was a real person!-but not a God or miracle worker!-the miracles of the NT (evidence from the DSS indicate which was written in 1st century AD) are metaphorical/symbolic of the changes he made to this dispersed/Gentile version of Judaism which was spreading through the Greco Roman world. For these reasons he was referred to as The Wicked Priest in the DSS, which were written by people who became his enemies.

part of the Controversy of the Scrolls arises two things. 1st from people's misunderstanding of the inaccuracies of carbon dating and its inability to give a perfect consistent date-however internal analysis reveals it to be from the Herodian period as they criticize marriage practices known to be of the Herods!
2nd-In my opinion there is a struggle between Jewish scholarship and Christian scholarrs-both of which would like to claim the scrolls and discredit the other group-the truth is that 1st century Christianity as well as 1st century Judaism is far more varied its forms than modern thinkers believe.

The world stands on the precipice of a great revolution in thinking in terms of what Christianity was and will become. Most importantly-to deny the existence of a fully human historical Jesus does a great disservice to both the Jewish and Christian legacies.

It doesn´t take many readings of Josephus to understand that the historical Jesus who was executed by Pilate really was the samaritan prophet. If you take a deeper look at the samaritans and their longing for the return of Joshua/Jesus it makes the above pretty clear.

It takes a lot more reading to understand that the risen Christ story comes from events from the life of James the Just. James the Just is in most ways a much more historical Jesus than the samaritan prophet.

Scholars have "forgotten" to mention this mainly due to the fact that they are more into inventing a historical Jesus to save faith than searching for the truth behind christian mythology.

The Thanksgiving Hymns (1QH) of the Dead Sea Scrolls are dated to between about 25 B.C. and 65 A.D. Thus, for historical and contextual reasons, their most likely author was either Jesus or John the Baptist. But the specific Revelations contained in those Hymns narrows down their authorship to, even more specifically, Jesus; due to the statements of Jesus in the Gospels concerning John.

Of course, Christian theology would collapse were the Revelations in 1QH to be widely understood and acknowledged as having been the original Revelation taught by Jesus; which contradict each and every one of the fundamental doctrines of Christianity.

could yoo explain how the said 1QH schroll contradicts the NT? I don't doubt so, I'm always investigating perceptions of truth so as to form one that stands up to experience, Thank You, sincerely, Joe

More proof that any resemblance between what Jesus is alleged to have intended and the Holy Roman Catholic Church as founded by Emperor Constantine I at the Council of Ncea 325 CE is nilll.

For those dis-enthused with the New Testament but still interested in the possibility of some revelation here, I might suggest to have a look at the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas, fully discovered at Nag Hammadi as late as 1944.

There is a good commentary on it, "Beyond Belief" by Elaine Pagels.

Does the reality of the first century really matter more than its message? There are truths that transcend any dogma.
Each of the religious disciplines have their strengths not bound by their liturgies. For me, I feel closer to God when walking in the hills of my Idaho than I ever have in church. It may be something I may have gotten from my Celtic fore bearers.
One should never feel the need to "enlighten" anyone happy in their faith. I sometimes think sociopaths may have had their genesis in the destruction of their world view.

The old testament is a cut and paste job.The flood story comes from gilgamesh.The moses story comes from sargon 1.The idea of a messiah,the idea of ages,the idea of heaven and hell,the idea of final judgement and many others comes from zoroastrianism.

Or this could be a sign that there is one universal God trying to reach his people in forms. I would never be caught saying that one religion is right and the other is wrong (I am Christian). I think God has been trying to reach His people in any way he can, but we keep pushing him back.

the main thesis of the essay above is that the Bible isn't an 'original' document, springing forth fully-formed. it's a great book, but it isn't anything new for its time.
in fact, it can be shown that all, literally all, of the stories found in the Bible, from Eden, to Noah, to Jonah, et al., have antecedents in older cultures.
Christian apologists like to refer to the Bible as having been inspired by God, and being the first and last word on everything, but it simply isn't so. The Bible is a re-collection of already-existing stories.

worth a googl look.
doesn't explain everything, but helps fill in a lot of gaps.
especially biblical in nature!
peace

"As to the divinity of Jesus Christ, I feel I shall find the answer after I'm dead, and with much less turmoil." ~ Benjamin Franklin

interesting. now do a complete run down on how the fake torah (stolen from ancient tarot- letters transposed) was joined to the plagiarized moses story (sargon1) and his fleeing from egypt just a ripoff from the ancient hyksos myth. then cover the 12 tribes confederate nonsense as most ashkenazim are khazars. NO matrilineal connection to "jewish" blood whatsoever.

then lets explicate the 20th century religious update/mandate, the holocaust- where there werent even six million jews living in europe BEFORE that supposed event.

funny how those historical explorations are not only expunged from the record- they are actionable queries.

It is time we humans recognized the primitive nature of Christian belief and its inadequacy as a basis for the future of our species.

No - it's time you people stopped trying to convince good Christians that your theories are right. Feel free to believe your own fairly tales that's your business, I on the other will believe in Christ, particularly as it strikes me as odd how many people go out of their way to convince me he is a myth. I don't see you putting in the same efforts regarding Satanism or Paganism.
Now we all know everything has an opposite. Let's take Satan for example who really is his Nemesis? Buddah, Mohammed? No it is Christ, which is why there is such a need by the satan worshipping elite to defile him, mock him or put him down at every turn.

So in answer to your question "Is it time" we turned our back on a primitive faith....."No it's not". You can do as you please and run straight into the arms of the NWO and Satan worship....but I will choose otherwise if you don't mind.
I pray that you will see the light before it's too late.

Nehemiah Gordan is one of the men who has studied the scrolls and he has written a book on Jesus based on his studies, that totally disagree with this article. In fact he studied a Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew and wrote a book about it called: The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus . the author has his facts wrong. Here is a video of Nehemiah discussing it: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2662031810327980639#

A biblical scholar disagrees with WHAT? You haven't named any specific thing in your dismissive remarks.

The gospel of Matthew was never in Hebrew, so he could not have studied it in Hebrew. There was a previous sayings gospel attributed to Matthew that was in Hebrew or Aramaic. But to my knowledge it has only been reconstructed from excerpts mentioned in the patristic writings. Anyone can thus study it. What's your point?

Sorry, but I stand by what I said.

Acharya S.

The commenter is obviously trying to discuss the secret Gospel of Mark and attributed it to Matthew mistakenly. The secret Gospel of Mark was written in Hebrew, which I'm sure your already aware of.

Thanks, John, but again, I think he was talking about the Hebrew/Aramaic "Gospel of Matthew" purportedly referred to by Papias, as quoted by Eusebius two centuries later. (And "they" think WE use secondary and tertiary sources!)

This text has never been shown to have contained anything other than the logia Iesou or sayings of Jesus. Moreover, it has not been dated to earlier than Papias's alleged time during the first half of the second century.

The Secret Gospel of Mark was, as far as I know, written in Greek, not Hebrew. There is some debate as to whether or not this text is genuinely ancient.

In the extensive scholarly work of Nehemiah Gordon that I posted as a proof against this article , he disproves every word of every comment here. If you really care about the truth. If you really want to know what Jesus said and what he taught, and what language he did it in. I challenge you to listen to the work of Mr. Gordon and quiit dogmatically quoting the errors men have been quoting for years . Mr. Gordon has disproved every one: the use of Aramaic and Greek as the origin of the scriptures and the voice itself of Jesus or his true name Yeshua. Mr Gordon is not being swayed by his love of the Messiah as his belief's are strictly of a Karaite Jew who is still waiting for Messiah to come. Take the time to learn something as I requested and go to the site http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2662031810327980639# and quit refuting my post by the exact rhetoric the man disproves through this scholarly work and presentation.

The bible belt was largely responsible for re-electing the monster Bush, probably because he was "born again" and also probably because they rely upon the bible and their pastor to tell them what to believe and how to pray. I hope Christians who think that the bible is the word of god uncorrupted and written down correctly will think again, and start reading more books, to educate themselves. Otherwise they have no business voting.

Please do some research on Bohemian Grove....You can see Alex broke in there in 2000 and filmed what was going on in there.
Presidents and world leaders worshiping Lucifer??
Bush was not Christian....Neither have been any of our leaders for the past 120 years, they have all attended Bohemian Grove.
Instead of running around blaming Christians for the Ills of the world maybe you should ask yourself...What in the world are world leaders doing worshiping Lucifer? Lucifer is alive and well and so is Jesus!

Did not Jesus say: "The Father and I are one'? Meet the Father, then explain to me Lucifer or Satan and the relationship of the Father to to all you name: http://www.evilbible.com/

The bottom line is, we are all in different stages of figuring this mess out. Some are still in the 'I believe camp', and thankfully most of us, thx to Acharya S, Gerald Massey, Barbara Walker, Wells, Graves, etc...As more solid evidence emerges the higher our numbers will go. 15% and climbing...those that understand rather than believe.

So the bible contains cultural influences from various civilizations of the time? That does not destroy the message or the truths being expounded within those pages. As Jesus said, 'let those who have eyes see.' To question the divinity of Jesus is to truly show your sad lack of spiritual experience or knowledge. The truth is that Jesus is to be experienced and that is the real proof of His existence and continual presence in this world. You truly can't know the power of the Holy Catholic Faith until the Holy Spirit courses through your body, or you feel the presence of Jesus, or your prayers are answered (one way or the other) or you are sent a dream, a vision or you read the lives of the saint and cultivate a friendship with them and they communicate with you. You cannot know the truth of the faith till you reach out to God and He/She will reach back. The sad fact is that the psychotic Jews and their underlings, like yourself, are constantly attacking Jesus. They control the world and and work for the demonic forces. You are really pathetic and foolish to try to turn people from God and Jesus. You are ingnorant of deeper truths and experiences that go beyond the rational mind. If you were honest, you'd look at what is really happening in the world and stop blaming God or Jesus and tell everyone who is behind the chaos. The Catholic Church has been deliberately infultrated and corrupted so has our government, culture, etc. Christianity has never been more needed than now. A true Christian looks for fellowship with Jesus and finds it! Jesus is the answer.

"You are ingnorant of deeper truths and experiences that go beyond the rational mind"

Typical ignorant statement of a believer.

You are the pathetic and foolish one for trying to make people believe this horsesh*t.
The Catholic Church and the Dope and responsible for more torture and murders than anyone in history just for speaking out against thier so called self imposed authority.

Jonathan Swift said it best: 'You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place.'


I think, therfore I am
You believe, therfore you dont think

Truthseeker, you couldn't have picked a worse, more oposing name for yourself unless, that is, you keep seeking and I strongly advise you to do exactly that. To believe in a sky-god-guy who is his own son and had himself killed to appease himself (himselves) is the height of ridiculousness. And, he did all this to 'save' people who are born but had already sinned somehow before they were born? Yup, sure, it's all making sense now! Let's see now - all this sinning started because the first two humans ate a magic fruit that makes one smart and a talking snake told them to do it. Of course though, since men wrote the stupid book, women are right in there with the snake so as to take the pressure of it all off of men. Sure. And then the son of god, who is really god himself was killed and a whole bunch of graves opened and the streets are filled with zombies, but even that wasn't enough proof to even convince those who it is said actually saw it all. Funny also how the pastors never preach a sermon about the graves opening. Just too unbelievable for even the naive? Keep seeking, friend.

You speak of truth . . . and then you utter baseless insanity. You should stick with what you know . . . imaginary friends and whatnot . . . be honest about it . . . admit you are indulging in feeble-mindedness. Leave the truth to those who respect truth and are willing to support their suppositions with substance. Be honest . . . all you have is a "feeling".

AWESOME RESPONSE Mr. Crouse! As THE WORD OF YAHUAH says, 'For the things of the Spirit are foolishness to natural man, neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned. ' ALL OF YOU who do not believe, but DO believe in the pagan, Egyptian Babylonian LIES, well Yahuah speaks about you many times, and what HE says is that HE sends to you a strong delusion so that YOU WILL NOT KNOW THE TRUTH BECAUSE you do not know HIM or HONOR HIM. So now you see that the works of the TRUE GOD, NOT the god of this world-satan-THE TRUE GOD YAHUAH knows all about you and your pathetic, idolatrous disdain for the TRUTH. And one day soon, if you don't wake up and repent of your hatred of HIM, you will lose your life forever! Let go of your EGOS and humble yourself before your CREATOR! Your eternal life depends on it!

Christianity more than fraud, it is crime against humanity. Jesus was a son of god, that is a Roman god....He was the son of a Jewish ( Hexos) whore named Cleopatra that ruled Egypt on behalf of Amen-Marduk, a leftover extraterrestial from Nibiru. When Hexos rulers (later in the Sinai became the Jews) escaped the mob of rebelling Egyptian who backed Rome to save them from the oppressed rule, Cleopatra committed suicide and her eldest son was smuggled to India and Nepal, he came back to Egypt when he was 30 and found his mission in Palestine to regain what he think it is his rightful kingdom, stolen by the Romans. So with the help of maily Syrians, who needed to weken Rome power in Syria, they promoted him and facked the whole Christianity and Bible thing up. It was Syrians who inserted the well known reference in Josephus about Jesus, a well know fraud. Basically Amen used this Hexos thug Jesus to cease power, which he now finally managed to do. The whole thing was a scam to conquer Rome and ended up for control of earth under the New World Order. You can watch the 23 parts of Secret rulers of the world on Utube and learn all about this Evil Christianity scam.

LOL......It's funny how there is no mention of the Old Testament being copied from ancient Egyptian texts.........As if the Old TestAMENT of the Jews is the end all to the be all....LMAO

Yes yes James, I agree. Both Old and New Testaments are not what they claim to be. However, I personally feel that the Logos works through the written word in strange and mysterious ways. Which is why The Gita, The Koran, The New Bible, The Old Bible, The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, The Tao Te Ching, The Dhammapada, Black Elk Speaks, and many others, can touch our soul, and teach us to come closer to our own divinity within.
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Acharya S, I should not have called you a power hungry cult. It was wrong for me to say that. I am sorry.

The page and a half of verbiage is enough to make a person violently ill. How someone can spout out such verbal garbage is simply beyond comprehension. If anyone wonders why our society is terminally sick- here's one of, if not, THE prime reason(s).
There are many roads up the mountain. Nearly every dogmatic invention/religion is or can be quickly shown to be fraudulent. (No- strike "nearly". )
A good program , a healthy life plan, is one pf attraction NOT promotion.
The "loving" Christians -(think Inquisition, missionaries, crusades, etc.) are no better than the so-called chosen ones, whose goals are kill, destroy or control everything in sight. (Check 'old' Testament) It's acceptable to wipe out your enemy.
Who said, "Religion is the opiate of the people?" I think he got it right. Also, we must remember that an addiction is an addiction. It doesn't matter the content, the process is the same. The answer seems to be: "Check your premises"- and/ or bear the consequences. Wake up to the Real World and get your priorities in order. Your time is running out. javascript:JOSC_reloadCaptcha()

...Could you repeat that? I must have dozed off.

if the new testement prophecies are false ;then worry not;but if true ;then those who are not prepared for judgement have chosen poorly.The unknown goes in two directions;desirable and un-desirable.

WHAT MADE ME A BELIEVER??? DEMONS!
I have witnessed first hand demons and have filmed them in my house. THEY RESPONSE to the name JESUS CHRIST! Period!.....
So the myths and opinions of men that leave doubts in peoples minds disturbs me...but it said it would happen in the last days!
The Old Testament prophesied the coming of Christ...So you can't believe in one without the other.
ALL I CAN SAY IS....TRUST ME......YOU WILL YOU SEE!

So, you have seen first hand demons in your house and you want us to trust you? By the way, what are first hand demons? Did you happen to see any second hand ones also? What are the differences and which ones are scarier? Please, oh PLEASE... send me a copy of the tape you filmed them on. At last - proof! Uh...what? There was no film in the camera... AGAIN?

I guess you have not read the Old Testament and seen all the messages about Jesus and the prophetic words about what He would do. Perhaps it is easier for you to look for reasons that He did not exist because it would bring your empty heart to comfort in there being no answer to the bruised love that you have wanted to deny for years. Regardless, Jesus is true, He is alive, and He loves you all, whether you want His love or not. I hope that some day you can repent before Him and learn how potent, real, and overwhelming His love is for you.

God Bless

The article states,

"...the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, the earliest of which wasn't written until around A.D. 65."

"In fact, the canonical gospels as we have them do not show up clearly in the historical record until the end of the second century."

The above statements contradict each other!

I recommend "The Jesus Papyrus" by Carston Peter Thiede & Matthew D'Acona, as well as "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?" by F.F. Bruce, which show that the New Testament documents were written before the end of the FIRST century A.D. The first N.T. documents to be written were some of the Apostle Paul's letters, about a dozen years after Jesus died.

No, Christianity wasn't invented from whole cloth; it is a fulfillment and completion of Judaism. As a Jewish prophet, Jesus upheld the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17).

The original message of Christianity is that God came to earth as a man (Jesus), who was both fully god and fully man, and who became the savior of the world. No other religion has ever taught that salvation is by grace alone through faith (in Jesus) alone.

I'm sorry, but the FULL BODY of evidence contradicts your position.

I believe you misunderstood. The first part of what you have quoted is a quote from another website - that's why it is in a blockquote. What follows is my comment, very much contradicting what the article says, because it is erroneous.

The work you have cited by Thiede, et al., is not a widely accepted theory, and I do not believe it based in serious science. There remains no credible, scientific evidence of the existence of the canonical gospel as we have them before the end of the second century.

I recommend reading the article linked, as well as the information in my book Who Was Jesus?

What a response! One of the 1st books translating some of the scrolls by John Allegro while over done in some respects was way before any of the more publicized or authorized versions. This was because the scrolls did not say what they were supposed to say. They were a great embarrassment at the time. The Allegro book was interesting in that he seemed to find mushrooms as the tree of life, and basically the mana found by the tribes in the exodus. Needless to say the book was bought up, became expensive and basically disappeared. He later apologized for writing the book, or maybe what he wrote in the book. But the fact remains that the scrolls could have been translated much earlier. There was a lot of foot dragging.
Acharya, feel free to correct me about this. It's been a long time since I read the book. It was great reading at the time.

I gave you the google site with a video, so check it out for yourself... that's the proof I supplied... btw Mr. Gordon is a Jew not a believer in Jesus. He studied the scrolls and wrote the book , it is not fiction its fact. I gave you the book title google it...He obviously is a gifted man or he would not be allowed to be near the original scrolls, much less study them... have you??? if not, then perhaps you should listen to those who have like Mr. Gordon...the link needs to be copied and pasted, think you can handle that?

Craig, I've gotta say, "You've got it bad." You mean to tell us that you actually believe all this crap with not one shred of proof? If I were to write that I flew in the air and a bunch of my friends backed it up, you would believe that? Come on guy...give your head a shake or two...

Why is it that most everything we base religion on comes buried in the ground?-----the golden plates of the LDS, the Nag Hammadi, the DDS, the Washington Codex, the Talmud Jmmanuel (!), and a multitude of clay tablets.

Now that the minds of Christian believers have been swept clean of the legends and myths attending the historical Jesus, it behooves the author to find a more positive tenant before the latter condition of those minds is worse than the previous.

As someone who has more than exhausted his three score and ten time allotment of years in this cosmos, I am less concerned about religion than I am to know where this spirit sans flesh and bones is going to set up shop next.

I kind of like the concept that there exists an overarching, mature, Spiritual Entity whose character and composition consists of nothing but Love, Life and Light and who dispenses a thing called 'the spirit of truth' .

I can't vouch for all this since I have no memory of a previous life and sure would like to know who talked me into experiencing this one. But now that I have experienced consciousness, I have the irrational desire to remain in that state. Why is that?

"The truth is that Jesus is to be experienced and that is the real proof of His existence and continual presence in this world. You truly can't know the power of the Holy Catholic Faith until the Holy Spirit courses through your body, or you feel the presence of Jesus, or your prayers are answered (one way or the other) or you are sent a dream, a vision or you read the lives of the saint and cultivate a friendship with them and they communicate with you. You cannot know the truth of the faith till you reach out to God and He/She will reach back"

This would validate countless religions, most mutually exclusive, as all being true. All these experiences predate Christianity by centuries, if not millenia.

"The comments made by the writers of this article show their error in thinking. First of all, Daniel 12:10 plainly shows that none of the wicked (lawless) will understand, but the wise will understand."

No. Like most religious scribblers, the writer SAYS that those who disagree with him are in error. He shows nothing at all. You're arguing from the text's authority to refute the allegation that the text has no authority. This is circular reasoning at it's most basic. The error in thinking is yours, not Acharya's.

By the way, fun fact: your boy Daniel (Dan-el, Dan-il, ect) can be found in the very ancient Ugaritic texts contending with gods way older than YHWH and the Old Testament. Kinda' ties in with the point of the article, if you missed it.

"Stop listening to people who are not sent by Yahweh to speak the truth to you"

Does this apply to you too? And do you really think we should start keeping those barbaric laws that the cartoonishly violent, brutal, genocidal sky-genie YHWH dictated? Killing people for gathering sticks or whatever on the Sabbath? Stoning adulterers and uppity teens? Killing and burning animals as "a sweet savor unto the Lord"? Anyone who's actually read the Bible would be terrified of seeing it's dictates carried out on real human beings.

Glad to see those Christians venting on this site than using their Christian Scripture engraved guns in Iraq. They will kill you spiritually here, in Iraq; they physically killed more than 2 million women and children. This was not the worse genocide by Christian and Bible touting men, they slaughtered whole towns in the first and second Christian Crusade. All this fake love and spirituality you see in their comments are but DECEPTION, like the real god Jesus-Amen they worship, the one eyed deceiver that inspired them all. They are the enemy of humanity, because in the end, their Jesus, aka Amen-Marduk going to have all mankind in bondage, chipped and numbered like cattle.

the bible was written by man and translated so many times is the reason why the bible is corrupt and unreliable.

Religion is created by man. With that in mind, how many things has man made thats not screwed up in some fashion.

Everything man makes, breaks.
Everything God makes, dies.

Sorry folks but thats just the way it is.

With catastrophic events like the 2004 Tsunami which killed 240,000 innocent folks one day after Christmas and the current earthquake in Haiti which killed over 100,000 very poor people one has to wonder if there is indeed anyone at the switch in the heavens.

I saw this amazing video of four Jesuit priests inspecting the roof of a Roman Catholic church in Italy which had partially collapsed the day before and then the rest of the roof fell on them killing three priests.

One has to wonder if indeed there is really someone at the switch!

Then how about this story in the old testament of Moses asking God to punish Ramses II when he refused to let the Israelites go and according to the Old Testament God punished the Pharaoh with 7 plagues and of it was the killing of the first-born of the Egyptians and even the cows, but bypassing the first-born of the Israelites.

How could this gruesome deed be attributed to a merciful God?

One has to wonder if indeed the Old testament is telling the truth!

BOHEMIAN GROVE.....WATCH IT ON YOU TUBE...
BOY ALL THESE KOOKY CHRISTIANS BELIEVING IN THAT MADE UP BOOK THE BIBLE???
BUT NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT WORLD LEADERS AND PRESIDENTS WORSHIPING LUCIFER AT BOHEMIAN GROVE...
SORRY BUT LUCIFER EXISTS AND SO DOES JESUS!

widawake "SORRY BUT LUCIFER EXISTS AND SO DOES JESUS!"

LOL! Nobody has ever proven Jesus has existed - even after 2,000 years of research, investigations and all the money and funding spent on them. Nobody has even TRIED to prove Satan or Lucifer exists because it's soooo dumb to begin with. The entire devil concept is only there to SCARE people into submission. It only works on the dumb and superstitious.

Reading all the messages..... i really adise all of you to go and do your research...
All the credible atheist historians and scientists agree about the solid evidence and proof that Jesus actually did exist. There is more evidence of that than any historical figure before him. All your arguments fall flat when you get that wrong... Whether he was the son of God is another debate...

I would think anyone familiar with Herodotus' body of work (a segment of which I am about to relate I sent to Acharya S a few years ago to be totally ignored and dismissed) would see the distinct Egyptian influence upon virtually all "Jewish Messiah" tradition, as well as "Christianity."

Herodotus tells of Egyptian priests that would sacrifice a bull. (The Apis Bull, google it and educate yourselves. A religious symbol for hundreds and hundreds of years in Egypt.) This bull was marked by a special sign: a white star on it's forehead. The bull would be sacrificed by stabbing it's side. A ritual performed for centuries and centuries. They would then seek a Calf (the Golden calf ring any bells?) , with a star, believing it had been "Reborn" and it would be coddled and pampered...until time to sacrifice it...again. And again. And again.

Roman soldiers much later carried a portrait on their shields of an amalgamation of this resurrected "Apis" bull god with Osiris, the resurrected Egyptian god, which they named "Serapis."

This "God" is the spitting image of the later "Jesus" as portrayed by later artists. Roman. As in "Rome." As in Roman Church.

Also, anyone taking a few seconds to think can understand what the early church father Eusubius (Bishop of Palestine) knew and wrote: "Paul" was Ap"POL"lonius of Tyana. Also the spitting image of "Jesus." The church stole Appolonius' sayings, and labeled them "Paul's hymns." Doubt me? Name Paul's sidekick, and Appolonius' sidekick for confirmation. Both the same name. Both "Paul" and Appolonius born the same time, the same place.

Ask yourselves, Christians: where was "Mary" (mari being the title of priestesses of Isis temples btw, where your "Madonna and baby" imagery originated) and "Joseph" taking the baby Jesus, according to your own N.T.???

Egypt. Now why in the world would supposed Jews, freed from "slavery" (supposedly) in Egypt, be going BACK there willingly???

Because that is where this "Jesus and the Cross" imagery originated.

Look closely at a Pharaoh. What is their symbol? A Shepherd's crook and flail, CROSSED over their chest in death. Wrapped in linen. With a beard. And, "oddly enough", every pyramid's tomb? Empty. Any imagery of your "Jesus" with Shepherds??? Empty tombs?? Getting the picture??

"Judaism" is nothing more, nothing less than stolen imagery of Sumerians, Egyptian, Canaanites, India, etc.

There are NO RECORDS by ANY ancient historian of this "Jesus" myth. NONE.

There ARE records, by Josephus and Herodotus, for example, that tell of the Indian origins of the "Ebaru" or "Hapiru" tribes. Sound it out for yourselves.

And the Pharaohs would have never allowed any "Kingdom" of "David or Solomon" to co-exist near them. Never. In fact, from at least the date of 200 BC up past 100 AD, there were temples in Jerusalem...to the "Queen of Heaven": Isis.
Archaeological proof of this. You can go visit this temple.

You have NOTHING. Not even a shred of evidence of "Solomon's "First Temple", a myth.

"Abraham?" His "wife" Sarah? Derived from the more ancient Indian A Brahma and his consort Sarai, from the region of the river Ghaggar. UR of the CHALDEES in India.

Joshua, the great "Jewish" general destroying Canaanite cities? In actually fact, Yo SHIVA, the Destroyer. India. There was no J spoken or written then.

Now, go outside, and look at where the sky meets the Earth: that's Horus Rising, or "Horizon", then call out to that ancient Egyptian god you always call upon at the conclusion of all your prayers to "Jesus": Amen.

Have a nice day, Christians.

You are wrong, as the Bible says, you shalt not kill!
You mistake the fake with the original. Anyone who engraved Bible Scriptures on a weapon is a satanist - as Jesus, the Son of God said:
those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

The murderers and liars you are referring to, are simply no Christians! No matter if they assume or hijack the name Christians.

God says in the Bible: judge them by their fruits.

By assuming the name Christians and committing satanic atrocities, they even do bigger harm than open Satanists, as they give Christianity a bad name. (As your comments prove).

An example: in Husseins Irak, more then 500.000 Christians lived unharmed - and yet the Country was destroyed under the pretext of lies. A violation of the commandment: You shall not lie!

In contrast, Saudi-Arabia or Kabul, where Christians are persecuted, are valued allies of the Israel-US mafia.

Don't estimate people by what they pretend to be, but by what they do - then you will not fall again a victim of their lies.

Bibles are being burned in Israel, and yet those alleged Evangelicals, the fakes, appearantly rather attack unarmed countries than saying a word to the Big Brother in the middle East.

HANS, COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I'M AN AMERICAN, AND I HATE THE MURDERING MAGGOTS OF THE U.S. MILITARY AS WELL, AND THE FAKE CHRISTIANS WHO SUPPORT THEM. THEY ARE TRULY DISGUSTING HUMAN BEINGS.

Jesus: search and you shall find!

Bibles are being manipulated, but if you wish, you will find the Original.
Its Gods word, he will preserve it.

Satan is a faker, he fakes Christians and Bibles too, those who are following the wrong shepherds out of cowardes or complacency are guilty.

Just google for faked Bible versions.

Matthew 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many."

Sorry, you don't demonstrate. You glue together fact and fiction with unsubstantiated claims and assertions. Conspiracy theories usually amuse me, but this crap is just too bad by any standard. Don't be surprised at the fact that all skeptics laugh at you. The sheeple that nod their heads at every piece of rubbish you publish are just as out of touch with reality as the theists you claim to refute are. There are countless good arguments and enough actual evidence available in order to dismantle the claims of Christianity; you don't need to resort to batsh*t crazy crap like this. But, do keep on deluding yourselves.

Sorry, but it's obvious you do not know my work at all. I have substantiated the major contentions of the mythicist position many times over - and someone who actually knew my work would also know that fact.

Nor do you know the mind of every skeptic to be making erroneous declarations about them all.

The author here is quick to forget that rome sacked Jerusalem in 70 ad? IN the jerusalem library at that time were over 6000 scrolls! Only 600 or so were saved and the rest were burned by the invading roman armies. So, the dead sea scrolls, the talmud scrolls, and the nag-hammadi scrolls datelines are sure to not align with what the bible says as of today! The bible is a compilation of the remaining 600 scrolls, and it's common knowledge that many gospels were left out by ranking theologians because they could not come to a general concensus based on their given agendas. I can go on and on here, but I don't see why the author is trying to make an argumentative and baseless point about the bible based on very unclear evidence?

The evidence showing that Jesus is solar myth is so freaking obvious. People have to wake up and realize this fact.

Lets not forget that allot of the old testament is based on even older scripture in the form of clay tablets that precedes the jews my several thousand years (Summerian). So as they discredit christianity they will descredit themselves as well.

The truth of the guidance and love of Jesus is self evident in the learning of his teachings and after you understand these things, all of the superthinkers that ever existed and all of the religious organizations put on this earth by men, become somewhat irrelavent.

Those who wrote the portions of the Dead Sea Scrolls in question here had access to the Old Testament writings. That's obvious by the inclusion of certain Old Testament books in the find. The Old Testament prophesies of a coming Messiah who would be righteous, etc., so it's a veritable treasure trove of material for a religious sect related to ancient Judaism to incorporate into their own probably spurious visions and prophecies. Of course, what they wrote would bear a resemblance to the account of Jesus of Nazareth's visitation of his people Israel found in what we call "the New Testament," but what is really just a continuation of the Old.

There were 400 years of silence as prophesied in Lev. 26 between Malachi and Matthew, so any writings purported to be inspired by God from that period are counterfeit. such as the apocrypha. John the Baptist was the first prophet sent by God after that period of a famine "of hearing the words of the LORD."

The Hebrew Masoretic Text and the Greek Textus Receptus are the preserved, inspired, infallible word of God. (Modern English version: KJV). 100% accuracy in their prophetic scriptures is the proof.

I think the larger point was that obviously the Bible is very derivitive & far from inspired. The Old Testament is largely based on much older texts & much older religions. Don't count on your preacher or some apologist to push those texts under your nose, though.

"The Hebrew Masoretic Text and the Greek Textus Receptus are the preserved, inspired, infallible word of God. (Modern English version: KJV). 100% accuracy in their prophetic scriptures is the proof"

Try reading the Bible a little closer with the rosy shades off & your thinking cap on. David was promised that he would have a descendent on the throne forever. David's line got wiped out a few centuries later. Oops! Jesus promised that many of the generation living in his time wouldn't pass away before the kingdom of heaven arrived & all that noise. Another big, emberassing miss. I could go on here. So much for your laughable 100% accuracy claim. And thats just the "prophecy part. Don't even get me started about the author's collosal ignorance about the natural world.

Jeff, You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But what facts are you basing your statement about David's descendants being "wiped out"? New one on me.

A basic fact about the Bible that too few understand today is that it must be rightly divided between God's program with his earthly people, Israel, and his program with his heavenly people, the Body of Christ. God interrupted Israel's program after he had given them a generous opportunity to accept his Son, Jesus Christ, as their promised Messiah; and converted Saul of Tarsus (Paul) by his grace for simply believing that Jesus was who he said he was (Acts 9). That was the beginning of a new gospel of salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ without the works of Israel's law as had been the requirement in the past. Paul calls it "the mystery" as it was a secret before him. Christ while on earth emptied himself of knowledge of this mystery which is why some of his prophesies must wait for fulfillment when Israel's program returns (and their tribulation) after our secret rapture. This is Mid-Acts Dispensationalism.

Not my opinion. Biblical scripture. Zedekiah, Israel's last king, got his eyes gouged out after seeing his children killed in front of them & died a prisoner in Babylon. So much for YHWH's covenant with David to preserve his line on the throne forever (Samuel 12-16). No line, no throne, badly conflicting NT geneologies notwithstanding.

" Christ while on earth emptied himself of knowledge of this mystery which is why some of his prophesies must wait for fulfillment when Israel's program returns (and their tribulation) after our secret rapture."

Actually, Jesus is reported as saying " Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, & Luke 9:27). Pretty unambiguous. They all died waiting & some are still dumb enough to still be waiting.

"Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me." (2 Chronicles 6:16). There was a condition to this promise, Jeff, and Israel did not fulfill it. The throne was never promised to always be physically present, either, just that there would be a descendant capable of sitting on it when it was. Soon the Lord Jesus Christ will re-establish the kingdom and his rightful throne and will sit on it in glory ruling the earth.

As for Christ saying that there would be those who would not taste death until they "see" the kingdom, the account of John's vision of the future kingdom is inspired Scripture and not the demon-possessed ramblings of a Joseph Smith or Ellen G. White.

God never changed his mind; this mystery dispensation of grace was "hid in God," (Eph. 3:9); "kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25); & "hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints" (Col. 1:26). God was merely acting on a secret he had hid in his heart that he planned to offer salvation to the world apart from his failed chosen nation, Israel, and according to his foreknowledge of Israel's rejection of their Messiah. Christ emptied himself of the secret so he could make a bona fide announcement that the kingdom was "at hand." If he had known and done so, and/or instructed his apostles to offer the kingdom after his ascension, he would have been a liar. Makes perfect sense; only way to demonstrate Israel's utter failure even in the face of being offered their wildest dreams.

All this means that during this unprophesied mystery age, you and anyone at all who believes that Jesus Christ died for their sins, was buried and rose again will be justified from all sin and eternally saved to live forever with Christ in heaven. It's that simple.

In regard to Luke 9:27: "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God," this looks like an unfulfilled prophecy. But, because Israel's prophetic program was interrupted by God in order to bring in a completely different mystery program, this prophecy was supernaturally fulfilled when the Apostle John was given the Revelation of Jesus Christ on the Isle of Patmos in which he was given a vision of Christ's second coming to establish the kingdom which had been promised to Israel through the fathers.

Israel as God's agency of salvation was set aside temporarily, but God fulfilled this promise through John the Revelator.

It looks like an unfulfilled prophecy because it is. The language was straightfoward.

" Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

If you want to say that supernatural visions or whatever count as someone seeing the Kingdom of God returning then we can include the testimony of thousands of mental patients to back it's fulfillment too. Afer all, they "see" god all the time. This is ad-hoc twisting of logic to paper over just one of countless Biblical contradictions & inconsistencies. The very best apologists don't do it anymore & duck the details in favor of more abstract arguements.

And on a slightly off-point note, Jesus should've been privy to God changing his mind or whatever("I & the Father are one, 1st John, & so forth). And the notion of an all-knowing & all-powerful deity changing his mind( like he does many times in the Bible) is incoherent, to say the least.

Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me. 2 Chronicles 6:16

There was a condition to God's promise, Jeff, and Israel didn't fulfill it. God never promised that the throne would always be physically present either, but that one of David's seed would inherit it.

As for the statement that some wouldn't die before they “see” the kingdom, the vision John had is recorded in accepted, inspired Scripture, and is not to be compared to the demon-possessed ramblings of Joseph Smith or Ellen G. White.

God did not change his mind, but merely acted on a secret he had hid in his heart to save sinners apart from the agency of his chosen, failed nation. (Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26). Jesus Christ emptied himself of the knowledge of this intervening mystery age while Israel's program is on the shelf because he could then offer Israel her kingdom without becoming a liar.

The important thing is that during this unprophesied mystery age of grace, any sinner who believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again is completely justified from all things and saved to spend eternity with Christ in heaven's glory. Make haste to accept God's free gift while the age of grace lasts; the hour is late and our rapture draws near, after which Israel's law gospel will return and salvation will come with a price tag again - keeping the Law.

"As for the statement that some wouldn't die before they “see” the kingdom, the vision John had is recorded in accepted, inspired Scripture, and is not to be compared to the demon-possessed ramblings of Joseph Smith or Ellen G. White."

Accepted? Inspired? Depends on who you ask. Most of the world then & now disagree. The Koran, Vedic scriptures, Book of Mormon, & Hermetic writings are also "inspired". Why don't you accept them?

Plenty of lunatics talk to YHWH, Jesus, & other celebrities. And they're even here, available for questioning. Why are only ancient anonymous lunatics "inspired" & allowed to dictate people's lives?

Revelation reads like a really bad acid trip. Claiming that this ancient psychadelia fulfills Jesus's promise that " there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they SEE the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" is a seriously ad-hoc torturing of the word "see" to try & paper over that emberassing failure. If my dying grandma says that I'll see her again coming in her kingdom soon & I later "see" her in a dream, is that a prophecy fulfilled?

Bad example, I know. Unlike me, there's no proof that John wrote Revelations, or even existed. It was written no earlier than 95 AD & probably much later. Lifespans being what they were 2000 years ago...do the math.

"God did not change his mind, but merely acted on a secret he had hid in his heart to save sinners apart from the agency of his chosen, failed nation."

Semantics. What's the difference? He said one thing & did another. Often. When we do that it's called not living up to your word, dishonesty, lying & lots of other things. Furthermore...

"The important thing is that during this unprophesied mystery age of grace, any sinner who believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again is completely justified from all things and saved to spend eternity with Christ in heaven's glory. Make haste to accept God's free gift while the age of grace lasts; the hour is late and our rapture draws near, after which Israel's law gospel will return and salvation will come with a price tag again - keeping the Law."

That's not what J.C. says.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same (like Paul), shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

It's convenient to take Paul's teaching of grace suspending the law but you have to ignore Jesus's words to do it. It works out great for those of us who don't want to be murdered for picking up some overtime on the weekend.

Still easier, though you can put stock in reason & evidence over dogmas & ancient absurdities. Sure, you have to think for yourself a lot instead of having your worldviews & opinions issued to you, but freedom, real "salvation", has it's price.

Great writing, jeff - right on the money. You managed to express every one of my feelings exactly and hopefully jog the senses of the sheeple lady, Deborah, although I doubt if it will make any difference to her. It is sometimes downright disheartening to see the stupidity of so many people. Trouble is that religion has ruined so many lives also. I have lost a good friend to Christianity. He has completely gone off the deep end and has lost his wife, friends, and the respect of everyone and I'm afraid he'll end up in a mental institution, the way it's going.

You yourself are already being "intellectually dishonest" because you are a Christian who brings with him certain biases and prejudices. Hence, you can wave your hand in dismissal saying, "Nothing is proven at all."

The fact will remain, however, that it certainly has been. It has been demonstrated abundantly that the Bible - both Old and New Testaments - is largely a compilation of the fables of numerous cultures.

Being intellectually dishonest about that fact is at the root of much dis-ease on this planet.

Only one book in the KJV can be called inspiration, the rest are nothing but regergetated trash from various cultures and writers from centuries past. But this Book of Revelation is so prophetically accurate, that it maybe not inspired but rather a blue print plan of Christianity inventor Amen-Marduk. Oddly, it is the only book that its writer has historic record being existed. All other writers of the various concocted books in KJV have no historical evidence that they ever existed and all supposedly died tortured or on cross.

As to the Old Testament, its inaccuracy and plagerizing of the Eluma Elish and other Sumerian and Egyptian texts are notorious and inaccurate. Most of what is not copied is utterly absurd, as this for one example, GOD come down and sat in a tent with Moses for Forty days and Forty nights, having cafe late and chatting about everything from women to listing all what god had created... OOOH Moses, if I only have time to tell you what and how much I have created ...LOL. Can we get this GOD over here now and fix this screwed up place up, will have fresh Late for him too. There also exist the books of Ezekiel and Daniel, the forerunner of the book of Revelation. Both have historical person behinds them and did communicate with extraterrestrials. All three religion Judaism, Christianity and Islam call not on god name but the affirmative after each verse is AMEN as in AMEN, Ammoun, Amen-RA (stole Ra identity, just as he stole Jesus, he is also known as the Mahdi which Shia still await)

Why not search on UTUBE for SVALI and listen to her story of child sacrificed in a Satanic ritual, in a temple right under the Vatican.

This is nothing new, all the abrahamic religions are cut and paste jobs of others, Judaism is just a mish-mash of Babylonian/Egyptian and Zoroastrian religions. I'd have to imagine that all regligions are based on the traditions of another, they all stem from earlier beliefs, since our present is built on the past. I don't know why this is hard for anyone to understand. We didn't just build the 2010 Ferrari Enzo, it's the culmination of the history of cars. Everything we humans do is like that. "If I have seen farther then most it is because I have stood on the backs of giants."

I have but one questions for the "believers" here. My dog just disobeyed me and peed on the rug. As I am his Master, for how long do you recommend I burn him?

Forever? Really? and get some locusts to eat his eyeballs?

Sounds a tad harsh, but Okay!

Here Rover, come here, boy

And the Pharisees are still trying to discredit Jesus Christ, much as they have in the Talmud. Why would they even mention him and his mother in the Talmud if Christ was not a threat to them? Of course Christ is a threat to them. He is the Messiah that they had murdered.
None of your latter day propaganda, nor you past propaganda (Talmud) will change that fact. You still have a date with HIM.

Uh...Bubba Lee, (great name) Could it be that you're just a wee bit unhinged? No more drugs for you.

That definitely sounds like something Jesus would say....

After all he preached love, right?

Way to be a shining example of your faith. Retard.

Talmud never mentioned Jesus Christ, desprado Christians, desperate for a single evidence that is never found, that thier man had existed will cling on anything for proxy proven fact. As always, it is not.

If you are talking about Jesus of Nazareth equating him with Jesus Christ, the supposed Messiah, you are into surprise to know that Archeologists in Syria have discovered no reference whatsoever to the place now called Nazareth in Israel (Palestine). Western Archeologists and Historians spent decades digging up the place and have concluded that Nazareth was not in existence when supposedly Jesus lived there. In fact it is further determined that this city first settlement earthed, dated 200 years afterward. It is a city that Biblical myth in fact built centuries later.

Furthermore, Syrian Nationalist Party chief Archeologist stated that not only the story of Jesus was a myth made up but all the biblical and Talmudic history was fiction. There never existed a king David, Israel or Jewish kingdom. There exist in Syrian and Middle East archeological sites and museums, millions of tablets and state and commercial records from Sumerian, Ugarit, Aram, Phoenician,, Assyrian and Babylonian records, not one mention of a king or a kingdom in Israel or one transaction in that region. This has been extensively documented by SNP in the past 5 years. Although Jesus was in fact a bastard to a Jewish whore named Cleopatra the Talmudic references to Balaam is not relating to the figure in question, Jesus name was a common as Abdul for Arabs and John for Americans. There existed at times many, several clan and charlatan leaders with the names of Jesus, all proclaimed deity, at least eight of them were documents by SNP do your Google search. Christianity is more than a fraud, it is a crime against humanity, it is the basis of the New World Order and the enslavement of mankind to an extraterrestrial and demonic reptilian entities living in cavities under the earth surface. Again UTUBE: Underground Cities and Phil Schneider.

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.
"Jesus was a bastard born of adultery." (Yebamoth 49b, p.324). "Mary was a whore: Jesus (Balaam) was an evil man." (Sanhedrin 106a &b, p.725).
"Jesus was a magician and a fool. Mary was an adulteress". (Shabbath 104b, p.504).
Mishnah Yevamot 4:18

R. Shimon ben Azzai said: I found a book of geneologies in Jerusalem and in it is written "The man Plony is a bastard."
This is claimed to be a reference to Jesus. However, this claim is patently ridiculous. The Mishnah was most likely referring to a famous person and, due to the lack of any practical ramifications, his name was left out by the compilers of the Mishnah. Plony is a biblical term used similar to John Doe today (cf. Ruth 4:1). The keeping of geneological records was very common in talmudic times so that regular Jews did not marry bastards and violate the biblical prohibition (Deuteronomy 23:3). Investigations into lineage and proclamations of bastardy were not uncommon (cf. Nehemiah 7:5; Talmud Kiddushin 70b-71a). There is no reason to assume that this refers to Jesus.

Did not Jesus say: "The Father and I are one'? Meet the Father, then explain to me Lucifer or Satan and the relationship of the Father to to all you name: http://www.evilbible.com/

Judging from the way world wide Christians pay their taxes directly by arming Israel to the tooth, I wonder why they have problems coming to terms with the fact that they are nothing but purchasers of an off-the-shelf Jewish sect with Roman traditional spin.

We find all this comeing out now ? As we the world are in dire straights . well this just proves to me how the bible is spot on, just like john of patmos said .
The U.S and its D.C hench men will be baying after christians next .
Maybe you are just repeating a story for a zionist/iluminati cause.
I will stick with jesus .WHY YOU ASK. BECAUSE I WANT HIM TO BE KING which he will be because i know he is real 2 near deaths under my belt and one of them was bad cold dark stone age dark.

"Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .
I have not reviled the God.
I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.
I have not done what the God abominates . . .
I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
I have not blocked the God at his processions. 5

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10cl.htm
http://philosophyofscienceportal.blogspot.com/2009/05/papyrus-of-anico mplete-papyrus.html

Hi Acharya,

Love the research and information, always good to hear from you, and this is a very exciting message.

The deeper symbolic meaning of these scrolls and scriptures is lost on most of us today.

For Example: The symbolism of an "Ark" which is our Safe House, where we bring our family and our whole world.

This could represent our Faith in God where we keep our Loved Ones while traveling the stormy Flood Of Life!

Sure, it's a fiction, but one that my 7 year old remembers, and it meets him at his level, but grows also to ours, right?

All of the great stories, from Adam and Eve, to Pinocchio, have a message that people remember and embrace.

Point is, you haven't made the message of any less value by correctly identifying the origin. You are doing priceless work we should all thank you for.

It wouldn't surprise me if you have made mistakes, you don't claim to be perfect. It does surprise me when people say you are "wrong".

There are too many footnotes in most of your work for me to check them all, but the exhaustive documentation is impressive, and as far as I have had time to check them, have been unassailable.

What you do is to dig and dig, and share your work, and I believe you do an exceptional job and want to thank you.

Reading you as an Astronomer, your information on Solar Deities excites students, professionals, and fumblers (me) alike.

Orion, the Three Kings, and Sirius have more meaning even to the little kids that I teach.

When kids between 7 and 15 years old see the Christmas star in the east, and the Three Kings for the first time, you should see the smiles!

Please recommend the book that an Astronomer/Mystery student should read and I will make a purchase.

Jeff

Thank you for the extremely attractive example of Christian devotion. Very nice language and lovely hate speech you're spewing here. Jesus must be very proud.

By exposing the patently FICTIONAL nature of the gospel story - sorry if that hurts your feelings - I am helping to correct a hideous injustice committed against the human species. This crime against humanity is FAR more important than any political or business development current today.

Some 250 million people have been tortured, murdered and robbed in the name of Jesus Christ. Here's a partial list:

Victims of the Christian Faith

Again, that is only a partial list of the countless evil atrocities committed in the name of Jesus Christ. Christ himself is portrayed in the gospel of John as calling for his followers to burn people who don't believe in him, and this scripture was used throughout the Inquisition to commit horrible crimes against nonbelievers, including the murder of hundreds of thousands women as "witches."

If Jesus were ever to show up, he had better worry about being held accountable for all the horror and torment he has caused on planet Earth for the past 2,000 years.

And your abusive hate speech is yet another example of this Jesus-inspired violence. If your mentality is what Jesus inspires, then what I am doing here - exposing a crime against humanity that continues - takes on even greater importance.

Pete "I'm freaked out now..your face looks almost identical to my sister. Unlike you, she is deeply in love with Christ. 6 Books calling Jesus a fraud. Too bad. Really girl, what's driving your effort?"

AH? Are you really so daft that you even have to ask after she just responded to your Jesus fanaticism and hate speech?

Hey petie... In answer to your question of what's driving Acharya, the answer is something so obviously totally foreign to you, but for what it's worth, the correct answer is - intelligence!

And the hideous history of Christianity - including to this day with very nasty examples of Christians who go around the internet and smear, libel, slander and threaten others - will only strengthen the resistance by Christian apostates and unbelievers to being enslaved by this false cult.

Be sure to see this page:

Victims of the Christian Faith

If you believe that we are going to endure another go-round by Christianity like that one, you are sadly mistaken. Christianity's crimes are being exposed, and we will not be beaten into submission by the brainwashed faithful.

All those who have been brainwashed by Christianity - which is responsible for the torture, murder and robbery of 250 million people - need to grow a conscience and throw off this mental yoke that makes them so unpleasant and antisocial.

You can do it.

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people."

Gotta love that Dr. House/Hugh Laurie quote!

re - "Simple as that. Jesus Lives."

Yeah, that's what they told me too, and I believed it until I was 30 years old. Then one day it hit me that certain things in the Bible couldn't possibly have happened. And that led me to want to get to the bottom of how certain things in the Bible could be wrong. From there I actually start looking for *proof* that Jesus existed. And you know what? There was none. Not one iota, not one shred of evidence that Jesus even existed. And to make matters worse, once I started reading *earlier* myths, I realized that these were shockingly similar to the stories in the New Testament. But it doesn't end there. Most of the ancient Christian temples and churches that were built in the first couple centuries of this era they called "AD" were actually temples from earlier religions, and the people who worshiped at these temples gradually changed their beliefs over the centuries -- meaning there was no actual "start" of Christianity as today's church wants us to believe happened around 32 "AD".

The more I used my brain, the more I realized that I'd been lied to about all this. And the more I used my brain, the more I realized that that amazing feeling I got at church was no different than the same feeling people get at, say, a rock concert, and was originating inside my brain, not by some supposed holy spirit.

It took me several years to finally come to terms with the loss of something so beloved to me, my religion, but I finally did.

So in fact, it's not that simple. Jesus doesn't live, because he never existed.

Two excerpts from the writings of first-century Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus:


Antiquities 18.3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.


Antiquities 20.9.1 But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as law-breakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.

For the scholarship showing Josephus as worthless in establishing a historical Jesus, see my writings, including:

The Jesus Forgery: Josephus Untangled

The other purported "proofs" of Christ's existence are readily demonstrated to be equally valueless.

Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus: No Proof of Jesus

And there is more, especially in my book Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ.

The bible, made up of fables stated this, supposedly Jesus talking: Called the church a HARLOT of BABYLON and begged Christians to get out of it to be saved, it said anyone get drunk with it will burn in eternal fire. LOL.... Read your bible fellow deceived Christians, stop following Amen-Marduk deception plan to bring the world under his evil control, under the New World Order. You are a threat to humanity existence, look what you did on 911, there were no 19 Moslem hijackers and no 4 plane hijacked. It was all Christian boys of America behind it, all to bring the Christian World Order of the One Eyed Beast Amen, look at your dollar bill you illiterate religious consuming, murdering blobs. Elohim were extraterrestrial Alien, Allah was a stone status among 380 in the Kabbaa, an illiterate Bedouin chose him to be a god, Jesus Christ is Amen-Marduk, a left over extraterrestrial who claim right to rule planet earth because his daddy Enki supposedly created man ADAMU (Sumerian for Primitive Worker). Stop messing up our beautiful planet. We are not backing Islam either; they are in cahoots in the operation to destroy and enslave mankind, the same pants and from the same evil school.
Now here is the link you need: www.http://www.how911wasdone.blogspot.com

So which Jesus you illiterate Christians worship? It can’t be of Nazareth, the damm place was built 200+ years after his supposed death on a cross (wish that is true, befitting punishment for a deceiver of man). So here is a list of Jesuses around at the same time, pick your son of god from this list, lord of lords and king of kings, just like Bedouin Mohammad picked his stone status out, and Moses (that is Egyptian Pharos Tutmoses) pledged his elegance to Amen when Egyptians fed up with this foreign Hexos rule (later after escaping in Sinai became Jews like Amen became Jehovah).

Below is copied and pasted material compiled for various sources:
The archetypal Jewish hero was Joshua (the successor of Moses) otherwise known as Yeshua ben Nun (‘Jesus of the fish’). Since the name Jesus (Yeshua or Yeshu in Hebrew, Ioshu in Greek, source of the English spelling) originally was a title (meaning ‘saviour’, derived from ‘Yahweh Saves’) probably every band in the Jewish resistance had its own hero figure sporting this moniker, among others.

Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Yeshuas/Jesii, about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ! In his Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel. Even Saint Paul makes reference to a rival magician, preaching ‘another Jesus’ (2 Corinthians 11,4). The surfeit of early Jesuses includes:

Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach (aka 'Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach'), part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom' and Homeric-style heroes.

Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (106-79 BC), one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings. Imprudently, this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophesy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree – and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect.

Jesus ben Ananias. Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’. He prophesied rather vaguely:
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people."
– Josephus, Wars 6.3.

Arrested and flogged by the Romans, Jesus ben Ananias was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult.

Jesus ben Saphat. In the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee, this Jesus had led the rebels in Tiberias. When the city was about to fall to Vespasian’s legionaries he fled north to Tarichea on the Sea of Galilee.

Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’). It did him no good. When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds.

Jesus ben Thebuth. A priest who, in the final capitulation of the upper city in 69AD, saved his own skin by surrendering the treasures of the Temple, which included two holy candlesticks, goblets of pure gold, sacred curtains and robes of the high priests. The booty figured prominently in the Triumph held for Vespasian and his son Titus.

But was there a crucified Jesus?
Certainly. Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would (quite literally) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history.

Too strange to be a coincidence!
According to the Biblical account, Pilate offered the Jews the release of just one prisoner and the cursed race chose Barabbas rather than gentle Jesus.

But hold on a minute: in the original text studied by Origen (and in some recent ones) the chosen criminal was Jesus Barabbas – and Bar Abba in Hebrew means ‘Son of the Father’!

Are we to believe that Pilate had a Jesus, Son of God and a Jesus, Son of the Father in his prison at the same time??!!

Perhaps the truth is that a single executed criminal helped flesh out the whole fantastic fable.
Gospel writers, in scrambling details, used the Aramaic Barabbas knowing that few Latin or Greek speakers would know its meaning.

Also, I think in a very old book I read from the British Lending Library by special request, called the Diagesis, (or Diegesis perhaps), it was mentioned that the four gospels were plagiarised themes, and that there were 800 original candidates for the proposed figurehead of what I suppose was the then NWO religion, and none of them fitted the story, so Jeshai Beth Halachmee, Jehoshua Ben Pandira and Appollonius of Tyana had segments of their life histories lifted to form the synthetic Jesus of the New Testament.

I think something of Christianity is fundamentaly true. I've seen some unusual patterns that move me to believe this. But I'm more an advocate of a Jungian (Carl Jung) approach. Something along an esoteric line. The fact that there does appear parallel messages in the earlier Mediteranean mythologies to the Christian story...in my mind should not be indication that all is nonsense born of a chillike stage of humanity. I also believe some of the worst damage to human psyche has been done by Literalist Christianity, for the reason that I believe there is no greater rape than the rape of the soul, the violation of the sense of inner sanctity, individuality,native born self worth,self reliance..etc. Teaching people they are born in SIN and thus worthy of ETERNAL suffering in a lake of fire...Unless you beg forgiveness of Adams sin... in which case you will go to heaven... where you can worship your creator forever...? I ask..Who gets anything from a dynamic in which a Creator, creates an image of his self so that the image can perpetually worship this creator?.. I believe our reality is divine... If its not then I can think of no reason for the word divine. BUT even the story of Jesus... is a story of Literalists... killing a free thinker that was not caught up in the massive religious infrastructure, which had fallen into self worship...at the cost of human suffering/worth.

Pete "oh wise one, Savior of ignorant, dim witted knuckleheads. "

We'll take the name-calling as another sign of weakness, lack of integrity and character and that you're just angry because after 2,000 years you still can't provide a single shred of CREDIBLE evidence for your beloved Jesus.

Pete "Let's assume you are correct and Christ is myth. One dies and that's the end. Surely, the thought of that must really perk you up each and every morning."

Where is your evidence to the contrary, Pete? We're open to whatever the "truth" is but we're a 21st century educated people who prefer credible evidence to substantiate extraordinary supernatural claims. If you can't substantiate your claims then, reasonable people will dismiss them and rightfully so. Still, I prefer the "truth" whatever that is - and if knowing that Jesus never existed and when we die that's it, then, so be it. I guess I'll have to appreciate my time on earth as much as I can and for as long as I can. Now, what is YOUR problem with that?

Pete "You keep mentioning the millions killed in the name of Christianity. Man's perversion of Christs' Word has certainly created chaos and death, however, it is insincere of you to attribute the actions of false men to the Message of Love from the Son."

Actually, Jesus is a piss-poor example. We could find much better examples in people who actually lived and contributed to the world in a variety of ways. What has Jesus REALLY done? If he was such a great example for the world to follow then why did nobody notice him until AFTER he was already dead? Get the pamphlet titled, "Why Jesus?" from ffrf.org written by a former Preacher of 20 years.

Pete "But really now, what burden is it to you if the world has even billions following a Teaching of honor for God and love for neighbor?"

LOL, you seem only hold love -with strings attached for those who are as bigoted as you, Pete. And "teaching of honor for god" is debatable. I don't find it impressive.

Pete "What you offer mankind, vile sweetie is NO HOPE. "

mmm, no, LOL, that's what Jesus offers - fraudulent hope and false security. What I get from Acharya's works (yes, I've read them, have you, Pete?) is an awe of the marvelous and fantastic world that we actually live in. You know, that world that Christians and other Abrahamic religious devotees see as it belongs to the devil.

"The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." And the Bible identifies him, saying: "The one called Devil and Satan ... is misleading the entire inhabited earth." 1 John 5:19 ; Revelation 12:9

Humm, is the devil really that powerful or is god just so weak that he can't snap his fingers and fix the world? Not really asking - it just sounds so comic book to me ... if it just weren't for that damn kryptonite!

Pete "You label those that love God and neighbor as murderers and naive, misguided noobs. "

They do that all on their own w/o any help from others. Just as you're doing here in your own post.

Pete "GO! GO! into your closet and BEG the Son, the one empowered with our judgment forgive you for your disrespect."

That crap only works on those who believe in fairly tales. Prove Jesus existed. And what about all the disrespect and harassment from Christians?

Pete, you're an obvious troll trying to parody Christians look like vile, hateful racists. Your efforts aren't needed. I'm not religious. I'm even anti-religious & debate the subject at every turn but you definitely do not represent most Christians. Take off the clown suit & find another way to get attention.

I'm one of those Rothchild kikes thru my grandmother. Jewboy Jesus would be so proud of you.

Xtianity is nothing but judaism for goyim.
It was the jewish answer to the roman invations.
By striking back and creating a religion where its followers could not make money by lending and practice medicine. it gave the jews the upper hand over the europeans.

I remember the day - July 16, 1964 - the day the lady down the street had me say the sinners prayer- was written down in a little blue new testament she gave me. I have it still. In my big Bible collection I was so proud of .....

And then, around the time I was exploring my inner consciousness using cubensis, having so many questions about my "faith" and what I'd been taught and wanting to be a realist, I stepped back and examined what I had come to believe.

And I saw I had been programmed by fear all of my life. And I had denied myself LIFE for so long. And then when I began to see that Jesus may not have existed, could have been a mushroom (yes, I know, Allegro), but that there was no proof that he existed even at all ... and once I really started seeking truth and used my brain and looked at what astrotheology had to do with world history and religious development ... I came to the conclusion that I had stepped from darkness (a believer) into light (a non-believer). Absolutely everything was backwards.

And what was worse, the more I learned about the nature of reality, the more my friends - mostly religious - had to do with me. Or, was it worse that I lost those friends? I don't think so.

So, to simply use the guy above me in his own words: "the more I realized that that amazing feeling I got at church was no different than the same feeling people get at, say, a rock concert, and was originating inside my brain, not by some supposed holy spirit.

It took me several years to finally come to terms with the loss of something so beloved to me, my religion, but I finally did.

So in fact, it's not that simple. Jesus doesn't live, because he never existed."

That sums it up for me.

And Pete, you are simply a deluded ass.

Jeff, First let me say that I'm sorry there were two similar posts re David's throne (Internet Explorer told me the first didn't go through!).

If I did not understand that there are different dispensations taught in Scripture, I would have lost my faith by now, so I understand where you're coming from. It's clear that a different dispensation began with the Apostle Paul because the next thing on Israel's time schedule was the "time of Jacob's Trouble" and it didn't come. (Acts 2:16 - "this is that". God interrupted the last days of Israel's earthly program in order to populate the heavenly places with a people saved by grace alone and apart from the law. When that number comes in (Rom. 11:25), God will turn again to Israel and finish fulfilling their prophecy.

In every dispensation, those who wish salvation must obey what God tells them to do, and in this age of grace, he tells us to just believe in his Son's death, burial, and resurrection. This doctrine was given to us exclusively thru Paul, not thru the earthly Jesus (Rom. 15:8; 2 Cor. 5:16). Therefore, only Paul's epistles are for today. The Hebrew epistles, Hebrews thru Rev. are for Israel in the future tribulation. This is the only logical answer to why Paul teaches grace thru faith alone but the other books teach faith + doing works of righteousness. When you understand the two major programs of God: Israel to inherit the earth; and the Body of Christ to populate the heavens, the Bible will make sense for the first time.

It does take faith to even begin to study out the matter and so I hope that you will find enough faith to consider that there is a Creator and that he did give us a guide to what he's doing with us.

Faith is only needed because reason & evidence are lacking. Judging from all the inspired works & prophets out there, there were many creators who gave us many conflicting guides to what he's doing with us. And if the Old Testament is any kind of accurate recording of the words & actions of our creator, I want nothing to do at all with him.

Dispensationalism is an ad-hock (sorry to be wearing that term out) theologian's tool for putting weight on the convenient parts of scripture & getting out from under the ugly & inconvenient stuff (guess it stopped being inspired).

The muslims believe something of the sort that puts God's followers under his last prophet, Muhammad. Or was it Joseph Smith? You don't accept those "dispensations" for some of the same reasons Jews don't accept Christianity. Whatever best suits this or that group's purposes is "inspired" & cannonised. Just add faith.

Paul, who never met Jesus or quotes a word he said, had a "vision" (dream, hallucination) & proceeded to teach something different from & even directly contrary to the synoptic Jesus's words. That's the kind of thin strand that the whole theology hangs on. Not too much unlike the Mormons, really.

On a lighter note, although I disagree with you & your ilk frequently, I've often appreciated the civil, friendly tone. You, & not some of the crass deviants that post on the net, are the rule & I know they don't represent you at all. Thanks again.

Jeff, Just a note to thank you for your compliment to us Christians who don't come out with our guns blasting! My younger son is an atheist so I find them just as easy to love as Christians! FYI, my son does see the logic of rightly dividing the Bible, even though he doesn't believe the message. He actually took some Worldwide Church of God missionaries through the Bible trying to show them that we don't need water baptism today, never once letting on that he was an atheist.

I'll be hoping that you'll keep a little crack in your mind open to the possibility that there is one Creator and that we are ultimately accountable to him. I wish you all the best in this world and the next.

Deborah

I can not help but feel anxious in the presence of those who expound a literal truth is contained in the pages of the Christian Bible. These folk are somewhat frustrated by the disbelief that meets their frantic efforts to proselytize truth. (one wonders at the glee they felt when torturing the Templars and witches in prior incarnations).

It is intriguing to I, that folk such as these with an apparent need to find succor in a supra-entity who will put things right on Earth, haven't got to the point that it is in our hands to do the job.

The thing to learn, taught also in Christianity in its pure form, is to find that crystal within which points to a way of being appropriate to today's reality. Any efforts directed at dividing and placing oneself above or apart from another (none so holy as I) will usually be met with further schism and disunity.

If Christian belief centres on one God??... (the various cults and streams within the Christianity beg this question) it would surely be appropriate to join the ecumenical effort to find accommodation within the ranks of Christians and other Beliefs which lead humanity to a common outward purpose.

If this effort cannot be undertaken in any short space of secular time it is probably best that formalized religion and in particular Christianity dies on its own festering corpse of lies. The current engagements by Western Christendom in modern Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and now Yemen and other parts of North Africa represent the continued intrusion of Western mercantile interests into the lands of the Islamic Revelation..

For what purpose? Don't we in the Christian West have enough material goods that we have to destroy the lives of the impoverished third world to get more stuff... the very stuff that some bearded itinerant on the shores of Galilee suggested we do away with??

Wake up guys there's a bit of a whopper being told here..

Let us consider for a moment that which we might cognize given the penetration of our capacity to think and intuit knowledge in its most universal sense.

And at this point we might confine ourselves to the known universe and its process of being..

...and we slowly come to awareness of a field of potential which we mostly interpret through our physical senses, but which we know is mostly energetic, probablistic, but never, I repeat never absolute...

...we interpret it through the convenience of time and space... these phenomena allow us a back drop on which we project our sensory and momentary events and happenings...

the religions/philosophies which comes nearest to this conception are Eastern in origin and Buddhism is the easiest example of a similar cosmology, their field being Brahma.

Christianity despite its claims to deny idolatry is filled with materialism and riches.. and personification of their god(s) in the material world.

It has in the case of the material environment suppressed the eternal feminine principle.. mother, daughter, crone, sacred harlot... the Earth mother principle.. the wisdom or Sophia principle... instead we've had mostly the male acquizative principle, the principle of competition.. it's not that we don't need these elements of our being.. it's that we need balance to properly express our fullest potential..

...and it's not like we need a new revelation or religion.. there are enough now. We perhaps need to look outside ourselves more broadly and with softer eyes.. and within with greater clarity, so that we appreciate our unique value and mission on Earth..

Earth and Heart are an anagram.. the same letters found their way into each conception.. whom organized this coincidence?

I find words and number correspondences fascinating.. but that's me I'm unique and this aspect of my sense of wonder of the nature of our shared reality is individual.. the thing I share with all others is a divine aspect (provided one subscribes to the oneness principle in whatever form)..

..so thus my experience on Earth in this incarnation as well as being "my thing" has a universal character to it as do all others..

..to see the divine in the other will allow the finger to ease off the trigger.. the sights come to be set on the self..

..new principles that might direct this new epoch in humanity's drive to define the race include; harmony, balance, honesty, genuine needs met, empathy, creative, competition, love...

dogmatic creeds and non-thinking belief are relics of feudalism and deserve a dignified death and burial.. it all takes time as we are dealing with personal expression and ego, we are dealing with a person's soul.. a person's self identification..

..genuine empathy would assist in dealing with the problem belief creates in the world today..

..this is not to provide relativism with more ground, rather to provide humans with the tools to act appropriately and with discrimination to advance their interest as individuals and in concert with community..

..thus all benefit..

..and I dream on..

Acharya:

Everybody keeps quoting from Josephus, but I'm very suspicious of him. Officially, he'was well educated, from a wealthy family, a jew or one can say, Judean, whatever jews were called, at that time.

But he seems to have been atraitor to the Jews - a turncoat- who went over the the Romans, and was taken in. This in itself, seems very strange.
Theres's an agenda here. Was he a spy for the Romans? Was he really a jew?

In view of this, i do NOT believe anything of Josephus.

As to the famous scrolls, both the Red Sea and the Nag Hammidi, I bet you all I own, that the full writings, have NEVER been revealed to us, the Grassroots.

The refveal the truth, of religions and real History of Humanity would break the grip the ptb have over us.

Frankly, I KNOW there was a Yeshua ben Joseph, an egalitarian, across the Board. he was a Teacher, pointing out the Path of Compassion and Community. That guy loved to party, and dance. He loved his red wine, too. aI also know he was a ladies' man, unti he met His Woman. That man was never somber or boring, that kind of people never draw others. He drew people like bees to honey.

Then the pharasee Saul came along. And changed it all. Changed the Original Teachings, back to Pharaseism. A U-Turn back to religion.



I hate religion, and I am so glad I am out of it. I do know there is Some Force, a Spiritual Force so beyond Humanity,and that the evidence of this All That Is, is a Phenomena, that in seeing it daily, and shrug it off. And other strange phenomena, passes beyond our eyes, that we don't understand or care to, that we ignore it. (shades of Charles Fort).

As well, I say, in re. to Pagans, and worshipping Nature, and trees, water, and stones, clay statues, and figures, and animals and MANY GODS - 10, 000 of them.

THAT IS THEIR RIGHT!

It is a Right one is born with! To worship anything they want. JUST What right do christians, or moslems or jews have to tell anybody else, how to worship? Whether Many Gods, or just one?

After many years of research and thinking, that "Who is to say it is even valid to "believe" in One God! What gives religion the right to knock people on the head and insist on ONE GOD!? From Moses and the psycho Jehovah (whatever IT was) to Akhenaten to Mo and Gabriel (whatever It was)

I strongly believe the time of the One God is OVER!

It's time for individual systems of belief. Many Gods, One Miserable Tweet of a God, or None. Or whichever mood one is in, any given day of the week.

LET'S PARTY!

as i said soemwheerre worship is not a requirement of the creator only the devil. thanks and aknowledgment is all.

Huh? Dead sea scrolls prove without a shadow of doubt of the integrity of oral tradition and the truth of the God known to the Hebrews as Yahweh. All other religions are false. Worshipping Yahweh and Yeshua is not religion. It is truth.

they have not let the scrolls out of their site(israel) since they fired the first team of translators who would not translate them the way israel wanted them to , and then they came down with a mysterious fungus and were locked up i n a airtight clean box and no one seen them since so they have not been fully revealed and what has is only little bits and bites that one cannot use to make anything major out of them just the weay they want it to be, because why did they fire the first translator? because he was true to the crolls and translated the m the way they were written tio the bestt of his ability not the way israel wanted hiom to since israel is the lyinist nation on earth .

Acharya S I just happened to stumble upon this post of yours so I don't know much about your books or your back ground. I was woundering if you even have a degree in this subject or if your just a writer who post on this subject. I must say you make some bold statements in your article. I would like to point out one thing that you said in your own words " Few scholars " Hmm wow so now if a FEW thousand people think that there is a "God" they must all be right , right? I guess that means you must come to the terms that there is a God since a FEW people think so. Another question do you know anything about Sematic Languages? Well if you did you would know that all the writings would look the same from back in that time of history (Hebrew today is a mix match ) point being and who would of ever thought of it they might all be of the same people of Abraham cause if you know anything on DNA you would know that the Arabs and Jews are cousins wonder how that happened being that none of Torah,Bible or Quran is true in your thinking. In Sematic the word for God is Allah what is neat about this word is it can never be plural as for the lame term in English god see I say gods ,god or to make it mean Allah in English I have to make a G on God. I must say you have no more evidence than a Christian who says Jesus was here on the Earth nor any evidence that " All Scholars " hold the same view of the dds. Till you have 100% proof keep your Myths to yourself

Thank you. For someone who admittedly doesn't know my work, you have nevertheless made several bold conclusions about it yourself.

My "few scholars" quote in this article is:


There is nothing erroneous about that statement, so your criticism of it is a straw man raised in order to prove another point altogether.

"Till you have 100% proof keep your Myths to yourself "

Again, a bold statement for someone who has admitted knowing nothing about my work.

Cheers.

What work?

Acharya I can make bold statements on the article that I have read. A Few is not all I am sure your a smart person who knows what the word theory means this is all that this article states theory. So my question to you is Acharya do I assume the gospels are innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent? i have a theory on which way you will answer but I will wait for the proof Another question Acharya if there was proof of Jesus on the earth would you then say there was a God or would you then revert to something else that you don't like about the books ? My theory is you just like to take cheap shots at any ones faith. If you were a scholar on the subject you would know that you must bear the burden of proof not the other way around cause you have 3 books that say other wise. (I have looked around you site here I think you go into an area in which you have no idea about which is Islam the posts you made on it are wrong I would be happy to answer your questions on my faith and those that I could not I would point you to a scholar
who could on the subject ) Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

oneformydeen, you readily admit that you know practically nothing about Acharya's writings, yet, you obviously take quite a negative stand against her. Why don't you spend a few bucks as I did, and learn something important enough to make you think, perhaps REALLY for the first time, concerning religion, and you will come away without your 'faith' you mentioned and be free for the first time. I also was burdoned with a 'faith' all my life, as I was indoctrinated by my parents, although innocently by them, as they too had been influenced by their parents. All religions are fables, lies, and tall tales and once one sees that and gets away from it for awhile and learns to think critically, one wonders how on earth they could have been so naive. It feels great to at last be free, trust me.

Hehehehehe...
Funny.

Why are many prophecies in the bible being fulfilled one by one?
Hehehehehehe... I don't need to answer it here. You can all search or google by yourself...

Peace, people...
hehehehehehe

Yes we will have a new religion if the ptb have there way.
one to suit the water carrier,same as moses smashed the calf, for the ram symbolised, then came the two fishes they will be replaced with aquarius
but jesus still is king of kings. ecause try as you might this is only part of it

Religion is the greatest and most efffective control mechanism devised by men.

It is so obvious it is untrue, people who refuse to think for themselves will rather have some divine intervention to take the blame and the credit, taking all the responsibility and accountability away from themselves.

Religion is a cop out, an excuse for the realities of life. The bible on the other hand is just a book of literature, study it by all means but (for god's sake) it's only a book written by the literate few of the day and not by some holy ghost, amen.

I'm glad to have found this website. I'm reading the epistles of the New Testament and find it to be a third part of the problem I have with the New Testament: 1. They overlaid the myth of Horus etc. over the story of Jesus. 2. Jesus' moral teachings are simple, yet difficult to follow, and apparently were not flashy enough to create a meme. 3. The apostles go on to write to their congregations and what they write gets farther and farther away from Jesus' moral philosophy, ie "We are not doing good to get people's favor, only God's BUT behave modestly and don't let women talk in church and so on.

I'm sure they cobbled Christianity out of whatever sources they could, then put their personal will to control people into that. For me, I will try to stick with Jesus' message of forgiving your brother and giving.

indeed. keep it simple. being good is the challenge. good is simple, but not easy. if you are influenced by negative, ask God into your heart, to be your guide. If ever challenged by a negative temptation, just ask God for help. Peace.

what is the author of this article afraid to say this about islam ?
muslims will say their religion predates christianity, athiest are such puzzies

Hey lets all gather in the tepee of the world and smoken peace pipe in honor of the human family past, present & future before God raises up a new generation of man out of disgust from our bickering. God works in mysterious ways. One planet one People.

thanks for reading this. have a good day. love each other. be nice. don't get caught up in the complexities presented to us by those who have been negatively influenced. bring peace, joy, happiness to this earth. worek hard. don't expect perfection on earth. love conquers all. Aloha

It's funny that you want to disprove GOD's existence. Prophecy is a much more powerful tool to prove CHRIST's existence because there are some reasonable calculations that can be done whereas eye witness accounts are more fallible. Saying that the scrolls predate CHRIST's existence is helping not hurting, lol. Praise be to GOD!!!!!!!

This article is not about proving or disproving the existence of God.

The point of the article is that these ideas of a savior, etc., existed long before the creators of Christianity took them from the Pagans and reworked them in order to create the fictional character in the New Testament called "Jesus Christ."

There's nothing "prophetic" about using a BLUEPRINT to build a building.

Where does Christianity claim to be a unique or devine inspiration. It claims to be the offshoot of Judaism, based upon the arrival of the messiah.
I havent read your book, but on the surface, it seems that you are claiming to have proven the what nobody has ever disputed.
What If I were to say;
I wish to declare that now finally after much research I can prove, beyond doubt that water, is in fact.. wet. This despite what any swimmers may tell you.

A basic tenet of Christianity is that it is a new and original revelation of the divine - i.e., God - through the person of Jesus Christ, who brought the "good news" of the gospel. Christian doctrine does not claim that Christianity is a mere rehash of Judaism or any other prior religious, mythological or spiritual tradition.

My work demonstrates that there is little original to Christianity - and it is quite likely that my work contains many details and facts that the average person does not know about the ancient world and its religious and mythological beliefs. As may be obvious, few Christians seem to know much about their own religion, much less that of other cultures and eras.

Hey good looking. Have you written anything about the Soul?

Most of the words Jesus Christ spoke while on the earth, he spoke to prophets in the past while he was in heaven, and Jesus himself was the word of God. So your claims that the words prophets and Jesus spoke were not original, do not disprove Christianity in any way. Nice try though. You'll have to come up with a better deception than that Satan!

This may be of a truth, but in the last days Satan will produce overwhelming evidence contrary to the authenticity of the word of God. Especially Christ being God and man, and him crucified. It will get so bad that God has no choice but to cut the times short, least the vary elect be deceived as well. The tricks of the trade have become outrageous and unfair. This will cause a heavy hand to be leaned on those who use such techniques.

True Christianity is not dependant on any bible, prophetic utterances, writings of any kind, historical facts, dead sea scrolls, observance of seven sacraments, feasts or holidays, or any man made religious beliefs. True Christianity is a one on one relationship between you and the Almighty. Personally I have tried many ways to get results from God, with little success. That is, until I decided to give Christ a try. Sounded like a good plan, having a savior who sacrificed himself for me. Christ was unique, God and man, and a mediator between me and God. I liked the idea. Since God didn't seem to answer me in the past, I thought, what do I have to loose. After accepting Jesus I did get answers to prayers, at first they were not the answers I desired, but my desires changed for the better. I didn't realize it, but I entered into a contract with him, same as those that enter into contracts with devils. He owned me now, and I was not my own. This is why Christians can't keep their mouth shut, the Holy Spirit has the right to speak to whosoever he wills through the vessel now. Not to worry though, God doesn't believe in cramming his words and will down peoples throat. Christians on the other hand get a little over zealous in trying to please God, and actually push people away from God. For that I apologize. But the fact remains, I personally can testify that a simple prayer from the heart making Jesus Christ of Nazareth your Lord and Savior will change things. May be not for the better while on earth, but you will have eternal life, and that's what is really important, isn't it?

what things changed for you? do you know yourself?

back in the days before there was a Nazareth my vote would go to Appolonius of Tyana ( a nazarene or esscene), although Mohammad real kept the Arabians in line.Today I vote for the most recent messenger from God whose message is the same as all those long before whose remains are intured on Mt. Carmel after the first 750 rifles (firing squad) failed to cause any harm and a second squad achieved success after permission was given to continue by the deceased. All these Messengers, Prophets, sages etc. all taught that the world is but one country and mankind is its ciitizens. Love ya all.

The problem with gabbing about stuff that may or may not be historically real is that it just takes you further away from the essential. All the followers of Christ I know lead inauthentic lives, which makes them unChristian. In these circumstances, what does it matter whether Jesus was real or not? Either way, his inspiration apparently didn't extend to the modern era.

The greatest exponent of the authentic life was Socrates, whose Christlike life and death are so well documented to be beyond dispute. He chose to die in order to be authentic to what he conceived his life and his self to be. His message to us was that an unexamined life is a life not worth living. Examining it is more important than getting down on one's knees to worship a god figure, or declaring yourself a mindless follower of a Messiah.

I think if we got off Jesus Christ's case and looked into the life and death of Socrates, we'd achieve a lot more than this debate is likely to, going around in circles and eventually going up its own shirt. I get nothing out of ignorant people calling others ignorant. What a bore! Apart from Acharya, I didn't detect any or much authenticity. Having an opinion is fine. But just the fact of having one doesn't merit clogging up cyberspace with it. I place no value on anything that has the 'INAUTHENTIC' stamp on it, as so much has today.

The problem with having any sort of belief is that it traps you into an inauthentic life. One has to dump the lot, and start from scratch, abandoning all the crap we got indoctrinated with growing up - from priests, pastors, parents, politicians and pedagogues (all those P's in the soup!). Accept the despair that is our rightful birthright, then proceed to put some meaning into your life, and some backbone. That's the sort of good a divine essence would prefer to work through in manifesting in the world.

That's a discussion I wouldn't be bored with. What about it, folks? Let's read a bit of Tillich, Fromm, Camus, Rollo May, Sartre, Kirkegaard and real people of our modern era who put more into it than the cutters and pasters of biblical times. This Christ fellow you're all on about wouldn't go near a church if he showed up again. I have a feeling he'd avoid this discussion like the plague too. Not authentic. But he didn't exist, so why all the gab? Especially with so much inauthenticity clogging up the works?

You have a genuine gift for drawing the nutters into an argument, Acharya -- and there are swarms of them on both sides. :-)

I, myself, am a practicing and devoted Christian, and I don't see any inherent contradiction in the notion that the Bible (and other scripture) is both the Word of God and a compiled collection of earlier writings. On the other hand, I must take issue with your frequent and deliberate use of needlessly inflammatory statements. I enjoy your writing, and I have found your research and explanations invaluable in my own search for the truth (or Truth, if you prefer); but I would be inclined to place higher value on your personal insights if I didn't have to run everything you write through an industrial-strength BS filter before digesting it.

I realize that you deliberately include these, often very subtle, digs at the religionists (e.g., "...cut-and-paste job," and, "...mind-numbing programming...". It certainly makes your writing more entertaining to read, and there can be no doubt that it serves a larger promotional purpose when hundreds of angry cultists comment on a short blog post -- but I wonder if your work wouldn't be more broadly received by non-extremists, such as myself, if you were to adopt a more scholarly tone.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I'll continue to read Achayra S. for her ability to help me draw useful conclusions from the best information currently available -- the snarky bits notwithstanding.

Thank you. I appreciate that you as a self-described devoted Christian find my work interesting, but if you had dealt with Christian fanatics for the past 15 years as I have done online, you would understand that my description of Christian programming as "mind numbing" is accurate enough.

Over the centuries, many scholars and academicians have utilized such polemics in order to drive home their points. Indeed, Christian apologists have used MUCH worse language, as well as horrendous violence, to impose their views on nonbelievers.

As is the case with blog writing, my blogs are more polemical then are my scholarly books. If you compare my posts with those of, say, Christian apologists Dr. James McGrath or J.P. Holding, you will find my writing quite tame, indeed. Such individuals engage in extreme hostility and ad homs directed against persons, whereas I speak frankly about ideologies. There's a difference. If you are very sensitive to criticism of the Christian ideology, it's hard to imagine how you could enjoy my writing at all.

Again, I am directing my attention to an IDEOLOGY, not a person, and you might want to consider not taking criticism of Christianity personally. Moreover, Christianity is responsible for the torture and murders of tens of millions of people worldwide - that's why they call the period during which Christianity reigned supreme the "Dark Ages." Knowing that fact, I'm actually handling it with kid gloves. What I'd really like to say is that Christianity is an absurd, sexist and ethnically bigoted manmade cult that has seen its time. Since you say you enjoy my writing, I hope you like that bit.

By the way, "BS" means "bullsh*t," and I don't engage in "bullsh*t," so there's no reason to filter my words through a "BS filter." Basically, you are using an ad hom personal attack on me by saying I'm writing "BS," in order to defend an ideology against MILD criticisms that were NOT personally directed at you.

Cheers.

I see your point - I was raised as and used to be a Christian. Then I saw the light (sorry, couldn't help myself), and I now have to say that I openly share the resentment and contempt that many non-Christians have for the religion. I *try* to hide it, get over it, deal with it, even lovingly accept it (a monumental task), but it is difficult as, and PLEASE do not be offended, I truly do not mean any offense here....

1. It is hard for me to accept that any intelligent mind capable of grasping scientific data, historical data, or any logic or common sense whatsoever could ever take the Bible or Christ story literally. I'm sorry, but leprachauns and dragons are more believable. Due to that fact (or belief), it is hard to take any argument or criticism or intellectual discussion from a Christian seriously. It's almost like having a 3 year old tell you their view of the world (bunnies painted the flowers purple for their tea party with the teddy bears) and you try to explain reality.

2. Many, many Christians are so self righteous and close minded that they either can not or will not consider that anything outside their extremely limited world view has any value or truth to it. How one could argue with a point they have not even weighed intellectually for one second is beyond me. Especially when their is scientific PROOF. It is beyond frustrating to try to have a reasonable discussion with such a person.

3. The self righteousness spewing from the vast majority of Christians (who themselves are some of the most bigoted, hateful people I have come across, besides women who have just received a bad haircut....) and the control they try to retain over other's lives (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) because of their religious beliefs gives the rest of us good reason to resent and in some cases hate your religion.

You'll have to forgive us if we don't treat you with the respect you feel you deserve. (No, literally, I'm pretty sure Jesus commanded it.) Though, kudos to you, you seem to be one of the more enjoyable ones. The kind I could have at a dinner party and have a normal discussion with.

Thank you Achara S for your efforts to bring enlightenment to this subject. It's sad that with eyes to see and ears to hear, the many can do neither!
Thanks again for your work.

I think every religion is right. I believe none of the events in the Bible, QU'ran, ect never happened, but are values to live our lives by. The Dead Sea scrolls are just the oldest text with these stories.

I am an Atheist but I am fascinated with this kind of stuff. Christians are great people but when having an argument, you can't use Bible verses as fact because they are not. Places in the bible can be proven through archaeology but thats about it. Quoting the bible in an argument to prove something is like me quoting the Odessey to prove the Greek Gods are real.

The bible is a Excellent book the gather your morals from, but nothing more. I can't revolve my life around a book thats been altered, tampered with. I can't call someone my messiah that we only have 4 out of his 32 years of existence on record.

This article seems a little gnostic in origin the word gnostic means "to enlighten" or "knowledge" I have watched many documentaries about the gnostic texts including the gospel of mary, gospel of Judas, the gospel of Barnaabas... Most of the gnostic gospels where destroyed during the council of nycea where cannonical books where made in the bible. The dead sea scrolls where supposably wriiten by the Essenes yet there is no proof or knowledge ever of this statement. The gnostic gospels including the famous the infancy gospel of christ protrays jesus as a evil child who was un-ruley until he grows up and becomes the Christ we know to love. I am a devout christian and much i know about the gnostic text is that much of islam built upon these writings. In the suras...Jesus makes Birds come to life from clay. This miracle was also in the infancy gospel of Jesus.... Proving islamic liturature is part of a gnostic origin sounds kind of peculiar. The dead scrolls aren't gnostic. They where made by a people in grief....who are trying to get ready for god and the first and only messiah Jesus. The dead sea scrolls where made for a purpose and it is to preserve the ancient Jewish teachings which was destroyed by there conqueror’s. The dead sea scrolls predict a new age....an age where the sons of darkness most likely (the Israelites who went against there faith to join paganism) V.S Sons of Light most likely (Those that are faithful of the torah and don't worship false deities) The dead sea scrolls show many ancient manuscripts with it as well as "the book of Jubilee" "the book of Enoch" "the War Scroll" "The copper scrolls" (also known as the treasure scroll) are coded books which tell a foretelling of future events...The dead sea scrolls are very delicate so putting it together took money and time. The Dead Sea scrolls prove many Christian theories right. Also proves the bible is original. The Dead Sea scrolls are written in three of the world languages of the time. Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So the translations are what make the Bible seem unoriginal. The Dialect of ones language can change through definitions so they would find the closest words to define it. Sometimes words can be failed and finding a close word can be difficult. They didn't have the Printing press or typing to make writing easier. So there would be mistakes so they would find intelligent writers and scholars to make it right. The Dead Sea scrolls are not as accurate as it seems. The people who wrote the copper scroll wrote where treasure was hidden. Yet nobody has ever found it...So grave robbers are the highest solution. I have studied the Dead Sea scrolls in a book. Not much of it is accurate. The people who wrote it was also persecuted which made the process much more difficult. The people who wrote the Dead Sea scrolls where quite radical. They actually referred to there own time would be the end of a age. Yet the book of St.John the book of revelation refers not to there time but are time. The book of revelation reads.....The rest of the dead did not come till the thousand years had ended....Blessed and holy are those who share in the first, resurrection. revelation 20: 5 As I might add the reason why the dead sea scrolls where deemed against the Jews of that time is because of the falling away of tradition. The Jews where going against god worshipping Heathenism gods, marrying outside the faith and making deals with there conquerors’ this lead to the belief in a redeemer a man who can bring forth peace among the Jews and pagans. Jesus of Nazareth will bring forth a new covenant that would last eternity. The Dead Sea scrolls are made to bring forth the son of light (Jesus). A verse from the Old Testament proves Jesus was promised by God (Yahweh) There is what Christians call the Fifth, gospel the book of Isaiah prophecies the coming of Jesus….. Isaiah was written 700 years before Christ and is even older than the Dead Sea scrolls So Messianic prophecies aren’t a new Idea among Jews. Please read the fifth Gospel the Book of Isaiah it might even strengthen your faith. Atheists must realize if you want to die and never see the light. Listen and heed my words god will strike you and disprove your theories when he returns. Soon Christ will return and prove life is after death and thank you all for reading.

Hi. Question for Achara. There are folks saying the quote by Leo X regarding Jesus as fraud generating profit is a fake. Any elaboration appreciated. Seems every time I mention this stuff Christians cite some new working "proving" Jesus etc.

Mark, it is off topic here, but it has already been addressed in the forum ...
Pope Leo X.

yeah and Je-sus went to eat peanuts for the lost years. Actually, he was receiving some enlightenment in India. He was a mortal and died a natural death. By the way, what's wrong with his followers today? they are looking for his grave. why try to prove He is God or is he mortal?

No need to respond to me cuz I'll not be back to this site. Yes I'm a Christian. For those of you who fight so hard to disprove the bible, Jesus, etc..? Why? Can't you fight poverty or crime or increasing taxes or something that will improve your very short life? If there is no heaven, why waist so much time fighting the teachings of a perfect man. How can anyone say they don't want their neighbor to be someone like Jesus. I'm 51 yrs old now and surely I know that if everyone lived like Jesus teaches our societies would be awesome. Have any of you non believers seen what godless men do to people and societies? I'm tired of typing. Just one last thought. Do some of y'all really believe Paul and other writers in the bible just made all this up? They are liars and died supporting great myths? Man are y'all really thinking this through. And would y'all really want a society like atheist Russia? Just my thoughts, I have no intention to offend. May we all live in and know the truth!!!

Mike, I've created a thread about your quote.

Why Disprove the Bible, Jesus & Religion?

FTL

There is one way to debunk efferything about any god, just take a moment and pray, pray for something other than money, perhaps an enlightenment. do this not saying the true name of your god. while inhaling the air that you can not see but you have trust and faith that it is there hang on to there is no god and you will have nothing to live for but our simple complex minds as we like to call them are self cenered and we do things our way
god bless
close you eyes and open your hearts for what the lord has for you
for our eyes will deceive and will stear you not to beleive

The simple minded are so easily fooled. When you really stop to think about all the tenets of Christianity, one has to admit that Santa Claus is more easily believed to be literally real. Yes, I am not likely to be spiritually terrorized into forming a personal relationship with a two thousand year old dead Jewish man and celebrate him by pretending to cannibalize him. Because that makes sense...

If you do not believe in a deity or God/Goddess than it should be A-deist not Atheist...

Know the truth. Christians have raped beaten & killed their wives & got away with it because of the bible. http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/124174/biblical_battered_w ife_syndrome%3A_christian_women_and_domestic_violence_/

In many states it was still legal to rape your wife until the 1970's.

The meaning of an Atheist is without (A) Theos Greek for utterances or sayings. Theist comes from the word Theos. We are all atheist if we do not believe in one another’s utterances.
The word god comes from the German word Godan/Gotten which comes from the Norse male myth deity Wotan/Odin.

All the world’s religions are made from mythology and that is a fact. The people mostly men ministering these religions are liars or very much uninformed. Dozens of Scholars confirm the fact that all these religions are based on made up mythological stories. In fact evil is written within all these man made religions but they deceive you by expecting you to have the little girl/boy mind and not question what all is in these books. Now that there is the internet we can pull up information about what is in all these religions. Take advantage of the last 200 years of real scholarly research during the age of enlightenment. There is a lot of history that surrounds all the religions that exist outside of what is written in the religious text. Here is some not so nice things the myth Jesus & new & old testament says.

Matthew 10:34. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

"And that servant [slave], which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.

By the way the word Lord comes from Europe. A Lord was a land owner. You could not leave the Lord (land owner) without his permission. If you did you would be captured/ punished or killed by the Lord…….Look up the futile system in Europe. Why do you think our relatives left Europe? It is pure ignorance to say Jesus is Lord………

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

When one of his disciples requested time off for his father's funeral, Jesus rebuked him: "Let the dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

How is the babble bible much different from Islam?

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14
Subjection: Bring, make under domination or control, esp. by conquest.

There is a damn good reason why there is a separation from religion & state. Women did not get the right to vote until the 1920's because of the cruel/misogynistic bible.

Google Hitler was Catholic & the Vatican & a few Jews & Muslims helped the Nazis.....
& Google (You tube) " Did the Vatican Create Islam" ......

Suggested reading: "Christ Conspiracy the Greatest Story Ever Sold." It explains the history & mythology behind the Judeo/Christian & Islam which followed after (Vatican helped created Islam)

Here is another reason I left religion click on link below
Atheist http://atheists.org/blog/2011/07/29/fox-news-facebook-page-on-911-cros s-generates-death-threats-against-atheists

Google "The Founding Fathers Were Not Christian"

The most stringent controls on speech in the colonial period were controls that outlawed or otherwise censored speech that was considered blasphemous in a religious sense. A 1646 Massachusetts law, for example, punished persons who denied the immortality of the soul. In 1612, a Virginia governor declared the death penalty for a person that denied the Trinity under Virginia's Laws Divine, Moral and Martial, which also outlawed blasphemy, speaking badly of ministers and royalty, and "disgraceful word.

Please go to following links to learn more...

The Naked Truth http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234#

Truth Be Known http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm

Jesus Never Existed http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/index.html

Religion Poisons http://religionpoisons.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/the-vatican-and-the-na zis/

American Atheist http://atheists.org/blog/2011/07/29/fox-news-facebook-page-on-911-cros s-generates-death-threats-against-atheists

The Founding Fathers were not Christian http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
The Evil Bible http://www.evilbible.com/

Empire of The City - Ring of Power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-A54h_GQ8

Definition of Theos (found on portion of page that reads “History of the Term” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology

The Role of Women in Nazi Germany http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Women_Nazi_Germany.htm

The Dark Bible & Women’s Inferior Status http://nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm

The Bible & Gender Inequality http://www.stopthereligiousright.org/suffrage.htm

Nazis - The Occult Conspiracy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYug7hTvI-s

The Position of Women: The Teachings of the Theologians http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/womenfathers.html