SirMick "I offered to go point by point"
For the umpteenth time, we're not interested in your Christian revisionism. I see no reason to take you seriously, you couldn't even figure out that Acharya was quoting others regarding the 250 million number even though she provided the sources. We're just not interested in your nitpicking or your opinion. We've already established why you're really here above.
SirMick "I am very concerned about dishonest presentations"
Ah, that's not really accurate at all is it? You are fine with dishonest presentations so long as it puts your religion in a good light.
SirMick "Your presentation for one could promote violence and bigotry towards Christians"
That comment is probably more of a display of your habit to attack anyone who exposes your religion. We don't promote violence or bigotry towards anyone here at all so, this is just more of your selective perception. Christianity certainly doesn't have any moral high ground on violence or bigotry whatsoever.
Many if not most of us here have Christian friends and loved ones. That libelous comment is just another apologist tactic. Sounds like a canned objection apologetics minions pull out of their asses in order to smear people who don't believe in their cult.
SirMick "the first few hundred years of Christianity saw Christians covered in Pitch, tied to stakes and set on fire to light the way to the coliseum"
Sounds like more revisionism again - the early martyrdom stories are mostly bogus. Cite your sources, please.
SirMick "Christians are still killed for their beliefs in many parts of the world, Africa, Asia, the Middle East...that is exactly what you would like isn’t it? "
Mostly for trying to push their religion onto others, such as in Muslim nations, where all other religions are illegal. There are still witch hunts by Christians in Africa too. And no, we don't support murder, violence, hatred, bigotry or prejudice in the name of any religion nor atheism. We're quite fed-up with such barbaric behaviors across the board.
"that is exactly what you would like isn’t it?" That's just such a disgusting calumny. Again, a canned smear designed to pummel us into submission to belief in fabulous fairytales.http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/vie ... 308#p13308http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7413268.stm
ME "I see, so it's whatever argument suits you at any given time - "I stand by the accusation of secular humanistic fundamentalism." You don't know anything about Acharya but you've already made assorted false accusations."
SirMick "Sorry Pal, but this is just baseless. Why you may ask? Because her Biography is very clear about her beliefs, and also mentions her spiritual outlook. Please see the link to re-familiarize yourself with her. http://platypus-thatslife-cestlavie.blo
Want to try this one again? In fact, from her Bio, there is the following, and I quote “She is a fellow of the Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion, a division of the Council for Secular Humanism.”. But I digress yet again, you obviously, and ignorantly assumed I did not do my home-work before entering into dialogue. "
LOL, whoops you really stuck your foot in your mouth there didn't you? That so-called bio is from someone who calls himself "Platypus," it's from 07 and I have no idea who it is but Acharya hasn't been on that committee since 2004. In fact, those rotten "humanists" were abusive, so she's hardly in their camp. So, much for your "homework." It must have only consisted of searching for whatever dirt you can dig up - you obviously didn't make any effort to check your source.
It's just all about smearing Acharya personally, isn't it? We've established that from the very beginning with you. Always distracting away from the facts by pointing fingers elsewhere and trying to make the critic look bad. Too bad you fail - or does it just take falsehoods and smears to succeed?Despite all your babbling, nitpicking, deflecting and smearing, the fact is that Christianity is responsible for the tortures and deaths of millions of people.
ME "”If you were paying attention you'd realize that the 250 million number is a total over the last 2,000 years since the invention of Christianity. Nevertheless, why are you surprised that the population didn't pass 1 billion with all the killing going on due to religion?”
SirMick "Are you really going to continue to perpetuate this lie? Any examination of the historical population levels in Europe during the past 20 centuries renders this number moot no matter how you slice it up. You cannot possibly be that ignorant. "
SirMick "- This is a complete Joke. 30 million in Noah’s flood? You have got to be off your rocker, kidding, or both. You are not a biblical literalist, so spare me the pretense of attributing the great flood to the death tally.
- To further harm your credibility, you are crediting all the other deaths to a Deity who you claim doesn’t exist. I mean really, is this some kind of sick joke? Either you believe that there is a God, and he did this, or you deny the truth of it, you can’t have it both ways, make up your mind please.
- This exemplifies the very definition of hypocrite on your part. So again, is God a made up Mythological Deity or is he Guilty of these murders? I mean really, this is just plain dumb and you should know better than to use a God you claim is Mythological to support this idiocy. Pure logic dictates that if God is Mythological then he cannot be guilty for these deaths. Then again, maybe you are a closet believer? "
You clearly didn't check the sources or citations. What makes you think that at that time there weren't
30 million people on the entire earth? The flood killed them ALL, except for Noah and his family - didn't you know that?
Oh, you must be a young earth creationist! Or you truly believe in Adam, Eve and the talking snake, so there couldn't be more than, what, a few thousand people at the time? That's laughable - you must be off your rocker, dude! There were probably millions in China alone.
The time period of Noah is claimed to be around 2,400 BCE. Several scholars cited at Wikipedia estimates the human population in the third millennium BCE to be around 30 million. Biraben's population estimate in 200BCE is 230 Million.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium_BChttp://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com ... html#flood
It's "laughable" to suggest - knowing there are almost 7 billion on earth today - that a mere 4,000 years ago there were 30 million. But it's not laughable to believe that God commanded a Hebrew man to build a huge boat and fill it with two or seven of hordes of animals, all happily living together to go on to repopulate thousands of species. We live in topsy-turvy world, obviously.
"It has been estimated that some 500 million Egyptians were mummified during the time of the pharaohs, indicating there were at least half a billion followers of the Egyptian religion during that era."
Footnote "See “The Pyramids and the Cities of the Pharaohs.” This figure apparently comes from calculations done by Egyptologist Dr. George R. Gliddon (1809-1875) as follows: “Let us call the period of mummification 3,000 years, which would be greatly below the mark. The average population of Egypt during the time probably amounted to five millions, which died off every generation of thirty-three years. We have, then, by a simple process of calculation, 450 millions of mummies for the 3,000 years; but as the time was probably more than 3,000 years, the number of mummies might be estimated in round numbers at five hundred millions.” (Gliddon, 73.)"
- Christ in Egypt, page 2
There's evidence of around half a Billion Egyptians over a 3,000 year span. So, over the 2,000 year time span of Christianity we only need an average of 125,000 murders per year to reach 250 million. Obviously, it is quite possible and they wasted no time getting started.
Now, either there was a flood that wiped out the world except Noah and few others or the bible is wrong - which is it? SirMick, before you start calling people liars, you may want to get your facts straight.
SirMick "Finally, for the silent reader. Note how Mr. Free-Thinker refuses to address the charges that have been laid down against the Church. Note how he makes every effort to escape a real debate and review of the facts through avoidance, and I quote in his words. “Oh, I thought I was clear the first time, we're not interested in your Christian revisionism.”
Note how he will only support a version of history that agrees with his thinking, even if he has to accuse a Deity he claims is Mythological of murders, that by his own logic, this God could not possibly be guilty of. Note how he has failed to address the accusations that have been made here. Note how he is unwilling to put his information up against mine, (See his quote above) in an open forum so you can judge and research which is the truth for yourself. You see, he doesn’t really want to debate the facts, his mind is already closed to reviewing history in an unbiased manner. He is only interested in fallacious accusations and exaggerated death tolls, even to the extend of accusing a God he claims is Mythological of murder (which is a contradiction in and of itself). Also, to the silent reader, research all of history, look at all the events and facts surrounding the events, and then make your own judgment. "
LOL, I knew this was coming - as I said before, you are not to be trusted. I expect to see the typical apologist hand-waving dismissals. You haven't been accurate on most of your claims thus far.
That's just not an intelligent argument - what it shows is your own inability to comprehend. What we're pointing out is that ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE God has murdered all those people. That's YOUR belief, not mine.
And we're showing what a sick belief it is - or what a sick god it would be, if it were all true, like bible-thumpers claim it is. So, harping on this point just shoots yourself in the foot. Like I say, those are YOUR insane beliefs, not mine. I'm just pointing them out to you. And they don't seem to bother you at all. In fact, you're just denying and dismissing them, like I said above.
SirMick "Remember, a real free-thinker looks at all sides of an argument and comes to a conclusion before making a judgment."
Been there, done that - that's how I know not to trust you. You're not on any moral high ground here, remember? You're only here to PRESENT your religion in a good light and smear those who expose your religion for what it really is. A person with a conscience would be embarrassed to come in here and try to defend the heinous crimes against humanity committed in the name of your religion.
Nice try, but we HAVE looked at both sides, which should be obvious since we know Christianity very well. Acharya was raised a Christian - as many of us here were - and I was a baptized and saved Christian for over 20 years. So, who's not looking at both sides? We know Christianity - and we know myth when we see it. Apparently, you don't. Not my problem. Like us, you can get out of this cult. And stop persecuting nonbelievers all over again. It's YOUR ancestors too who were murdered in the tally laid out above.
In any event, nobody is stopping you from doing your own tally. Go for it! You can create your own blog! After you're through with your revisionist agenda I'll clean up the mess you've made.
I also want to close with the fact that although these discussion become heated, and they should, because the are deeply held beliefs, I have nothing personal against Free-Thinker or Acharya, and wish them well.
In closing, we thank you for your sentiment, if it is genuine. As I say, most of us have friends and family members who are Christian. We are simply talking about an ideology
that needs to be dissected because of its abuses.