Freethought Nation

Well Robert, if you can accomplish proving a strong point with the solar system cycle against the Great Year that can sway modern scientific thinking, then you can show how the Bible writers were correct by using the old Greek and Vedic rising and falling models of precession. Until then pointing out that the Bible writers used the Great Year and have truth because society actually does rise and fall according to the Great Year doesn't really do Christianity any service. As long as the Great Year is associated with mythological fantasy then the Bible writers were merely using mythological fantasy in their dialogue and that's how everyone will see it.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

People become very confused about this subject, making arguments such as "if there is even a single authentic saying of Jesus, then the mythicist argument is false." That statement in itself reflects a lack of deep thinking.

There are two simple insights to keep in mind when it comes to the mythicist position:

1. When the mythological layers of the story are removed, there is no core to the onion.

2. A composite of 20 people is no one.

Even if you could find some guy there named "Jesus" who said a few things, the New Testament character is not him, if all the rest of the story is myth. Indeed, we know that there were several Jesuses saying things, including both the author and editor of the pre-Christian text the "Wisdom of Jesus" or "Ecclesiasticus." In that text we have two Jesuses who said things - some of which closely resemble sayings in the New Testament - are these two Jesuses the "one historical Jesus" people are looking for? No.

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Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:

Hello Acharya. Your second point here is a valid critique of Christian tradition, in that the Christ of the Bible is clearly a composite figure, possibly combining historical and imaginary persons to present a figure who will serve the stated purpose of the gospels, "that you may believe" (John 20:31). Christians tend to ignore this statement from John, and think the Gospels were written to provide a historically true account. You and others have proven conclusively that this Christian assumption is wrong. The Bible has to be read primarily as a work of imaginative fiction. But this does not demonstrate there is no underlying true basis, in your terms a 'core of the onion' upon which the imaginative wisdom worked.

The 'core of the onion' question is far more difficult. Christologically, "Jesus Christ" is the point of connection between history - "the Jesus of history", and eternity - "the Christ of faith". Now, it can be demonstrated that "eternity" is mediated through the complex emergent pattern of the cosmos as seen from the earth. This is a claim that Tat Tvam Asi and I have been discussing here in depth. I believe this claim about the nature of eternity is also at the foundation of your own views, as for example in the material on precession of the equinox that you provided for Zeitgeist Part One. By this scientific understanding of the nature of eternity, the identity of Christ, as the eternal saviour, equates just to whoever truly shows humanity the truth of the nature of eternity. This story of eternity is the core of the onion. Whoever is responsible for the ideas in the New Testament about precession of the equinox as the story of time and eternity is, by definition, the eternal Christ.

The link back from this messianic source - the true vine, the house built on rock, the way of life in truth, etc, to a putative "Jesus of history" is basically unknowable, given the dimensions of propaganda that cover the historical traces. However, the claim remains possible that a single individual was responsible for seeing how the precessional shift from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces reflected the turning point of the Great Year, and for inspiring the authors of the Bible to elaborate this vision into the gospels we have. My view is that this cosmic perception was the basis for the vision of the Bible, and so was sufficient to call this person "the Jesus of history" regardless of whether the Bible stories about Jesus are true or not.

Separating the wheat and the tares within Christianity amounts to separating science from fundamentalism. The wheat is the ideas that cohere with evidence, while the tares are the popular delusions. Tossing out the bathwater, we can find the baby, the true Christ who saw the vision of precession of the equinox as the connection between time and eternity.

With Best Regards

Robert Tulip

Validation of the Mythicist Position

This astounding little video pretty much proves the mythicist position vis-a-vis the Old Testament. Here is what I've been saying for years:




I would like to pat myself on the back for having stated pretty much the exact same info in my book The Christ Conspiracy over a decade ago.

And the flack I've taken for it! Yet, here my research on Abraham and Moses, et al., was correct. Ditto with the New Testament.

If Moses goes, then so does Joshua, whom I showed to be a SUN GOD in the Canaanite area, as influenced by EGYPT (which, as this video shows, was highly influential in Canaan - something I have also shown in my books).

If Joshua - who was called "Jesus" in the Greek Old Testament - goes, then so does that eponymous fellow in the New Testament. Among other reasons, since we see a repeated pattern of mythmaking turning older gods and goddesses into "real people" of a certain ethnicity, we can pretty much conclude safely that the New Testament is yet another of the same effort.

Moreover, as I have shown in my books - especially in Suns of God - Jesus is significantly a remake of Joshua (among others), who is obviously a mythical character. Another rehash of the archetypal myth.

The whole house of cards falls down with the information in this video.

And I need to say those sources I studied who dated to the last several centuries were very correct in their suspicions concerning the Exodus, Moses, Abraham, Sarah, etc. Several writers decades to centuries ago have stated that the Exodus was a mythical event, that Moses is a sun god, that Abraham is the Indian god Brahma and Sarah his consort Sarasvati. All of this is in Christ Con.

We didn't need the hard archaeological evidence to know these facts! Common sense and education were enough. But it's fantastic to be validated with the physical evidence.

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Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:

An Egyptian garrison. Interesting. I learned a little more than before.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

Some interesting thoughts in the Religion and the PhD: A Brief History thread

As well as the thread titled, Professional NT Historian is taking on the mythicists

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Where's the Evidence for Mythicism?

First of all, New Testament scholars have no problem accepting that Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Indian, Greek, Roman and other godmen, are all presently accepted as myths, rather than historical figures. So, they're all mythicists EXCEPT when it comes to Jesus. And where's the evidence for Adam and Eve, Satan, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, King David, Solomon as well? Christians have failed in their responsibility for providing the burden of proof. Here we are 2,000 years later and nothing has changed in that regard.

Lack of historical evidence

The evidence for a mythical Jesus begins with the Bible itself. There is no credible contemporary evidence for Jesus. What is held up as evidence is flimsy and problematic at best. Biblical and NT scholars who are also professed Christians can't even agree on evidence for Jesus. We still have no credible evidence that Mark, Matthew, Luke & John wrote the Gospels. The literary and historical evidence points to a late 2nd century creation. Justin the Martyr knew nothing about the four Gospels by those four characters in 150.

Previous mythical motifs

NT scholars fail to factor in comparative religion pre-Christian parallels and concepts that have been borrowed such as Dying and Rising Gods motifs. And they fail utterly to factor in the astrotheological aspects. They're not taking into consideration the pre-historical origins of religious concepts based in natural phenomena which have evolved over time, starting out as mythology in order to pass vital survival information onto future generations. This vital knowledge included agriculture, taking into account the movements of the sun and moon for best results in planting and harvesting, for example. Which also included the ability to create a calendar based on solstices and equinoxes i.e. Stonehenge or Germany's 7,000 year old Temple of the Sun, and countless others from around the globe.

Physical evidence

Other disciplines involved in the study of mythicism are archaeology, obviously, as well as archaeoastronomy and linguistics. All around the world we find astronomically aligned structures &/or buildings that also serve religious functions. These structures and their alignments tell a story, the elements of which are basically the mythical motifs we find in the gospel story and elsewhere. There are many other physical artifacts that reveal the pre-Christian and mythical motifs that found their way into the New Testament and other Christian texts, as well as iconography. In this regard, these disciplines show a massive amount of evidence for the mythicist position - and you can find much of it in Acharya's books.

I'd be interested to see NT scholarship step up to the plate to address the works not only of Doherty and Dr. Price but also that of Acharya S/Murdock. She has done the work NT scholars clearly have not. Acharya S/Murdock currently has five books to date with over 2,100 pages of text, including around 5,700 footnotes/citations to primary sources and the works of highly credentialed authorities from a wide variety of relevant fields, adding up to over 1,600 bibliographical sources. Her books also contain over 300 illustrations.

The fact remains that there is no requirement in NT scholarship to investigate the case for mythicism in order to get their PhD, even though the mythicist school dates back centuries and has yielded a tremendous volume of literature highly germane to New Testament studies. It may thus be a case where NT scholars are too narrowly focused on the NT but refuse to factor in pre-Christian parallels. How can we expect to find out whether or not Jesus was historical or mythical by only looking at the NT? We can't, and at this point expecting those answers to come from NT scholarship will always leave much to be desired for those who are interested in the much larger historical picture that must be taken into account.

Conclusion

It really looks like the "Occam's Razor" answer here is that the creators of Christianity borrowed from Paganism and Judaism, making several attempts at placing a mythical, pre-Christian savior godman into a historical framework. This effort to combine Judaism and Paganism eventually served as a political power-move by Constantine to unite the Roman Empire under one state religion. At the end of the day, there is no reason to believe Jesus is any more historical than Hercules.

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

Jesus as the Sun throughout History

Astrotheology of the Ancients

Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection

The Mythicist Position

ZEITGEIST Part 1 & The Supportive Evidence

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

The 'reason' for the difference between Jesus and Hercules can be best be understood by assessing their myths through the evolutionary framework of viral memes. A virus is readily blocked by the defences of the organism unless the virus has special disabling mechanisms. A key difference between the Jesus meme and the Hercules meme is that the story of Jesus uses claimed historicity as a specific method to disable defence, as a main device to enhance credibility and spread the faith. By making the incarnation a central belief in its theory of salvation, orthodox Christianity vested much of its expansion strategy in this claim of historical fact. Other religions had not previously hit on this viral method, which of course proved wildly successful for the church.

The only reason to believe Jesus is more historical than Hercules is that the Bible says he is, and raises fear of hell for anyone who doubts this claim. The logic of belief in the incarnation is circular, threadbare and without external support. It has now lost whatever moral force it might once have had, in that the belief in the historical Jesus now stands, with creationism, as an irrational bulwark against the need to rely on evidence, observation and reason as a basis for belief.

Nicely said Robert!

1 John 4:3 "but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

2 John 1:7 "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

As Acharya always points out, why such a need to go after those who see no reason to believe Jesus was historical and even going so far as to accuse them of being "deceivers" and "antichrists" if there's credible evidence to counter it? I can't help but notice how the NT makes no effort to substantiate a real historical Jesus. Instead of providing us with valid evidence, they go for a very defensive tactic of assorted accusations. It's so over-the-top that it should make you immediately suspicious. It's "you're either with us or against us," and we all know how well that turned out during the crusades, Inquisitions and DARK AGES.

It just comes down to discrimination:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, 'There is no god.' they are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good.

Here again we see that if you don't agree with their beliefs then, you are "condemned," "corrupt," and worse. Thanks to this type of peer pressure you become an outcast to be looked down upon & abused.

No real god with even just a human IQ would ever allow such a low level of integrity stand. Just more evidence of how the god of the Abrahamic religions is a joke. It helps us make the case for the mythicist position.

"No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."
- George H.W. Bush, when he was candidate for president

"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land - for Jesus Christ - to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect life & godliness. It is dominion we're after not just a voice. It is dominion we're after not just influence. It is dominion we're after not just equal time. It is dominion we're after. World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to do."
- George Grant, "changing of the guard" pg 50-51

"Our goal, as christians, is to dominate society"
- Pat Robertson

"Christianity & Democracy are inevitably enemies"
- R.J. Rushdoony "Independent Republic" pg 122, 1964

"The church should be a disciplined charging army christians, like slaves & solders ask no questions. We are fighting a holy war"
- Jerry Falwell

"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."
- D. James Kennedy

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ... We need believing people."

- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933.

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

* Another point to make in the case for mythicism:

* Simcha Jacobovici is not an archaeologist
http://www.visiontv.ca/NakedArchaeologist/index2.htm

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

I found this blog by April DeConick to be spot-on with our views here on how both the church and academia approach the case for mythicism.

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Here is a recent example of what's wrong in academia still to this day. We have professional archaeologists publicly saying that other archaeologists are "bending science to prove a Biblical heritage" ... with "generous funding, from religious groups"





Source: Reuters

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Enjoy the new poll.

Do you consider yourself a mythicist?

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Poll: Yes.

Christians have yet to provide any credible evidence for an historical Jesus as portrayed in the New Testament.

The non-Biblical non-contemporary references they cite are too few, too late, too vague, and some have been shown to be fraudulent.

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Vote: Yes, of course.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?