GreekOrthodoxy, so this is how its going to go? Because you seem to be incapable of understanding scholarly notations, you come back with another load of baloney? All you're doing here is proving you're not a competent student, much less a scholar.
If you actually had read Acharya's posts - which you are falsely claiming to have done - you would know what "Allen, 31" means. But you don't, because you're not a scholar, and its obvious.
Earlier in this thread, Acharya cited "Allen" as "James P. Allen, ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PYRAMID TEXTS." Again, what part of those PRIMARY SOURCES do you not understand? Don't answer that - we already know from your comments that it is NONE.
So, that passage about Unis - an EGYPTIAN PHARAOH, ever heard of those? - is from the PRIMARY SOURCE called the ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PYRAMID TEXTS.
The quote is only "secondary" because it's a TRANSLATION by a respected Egyptologist - what part of TRANSLATION do you not understand? Do you want Acharya to dig up the original Egyptian of the PYRAMID TEXT OF UNIS - would you really understand that?
Do you read the New Testament in the original Greek, GreekOrthodoxy?
I have rarely seen such an ignorant, dishonest person trying to argue above his station.
Second, Acharya is SUMMARIZING and EXPLAINING what was just provided from a PRIMARY SOURCE. Have you actually never read a book at all, not to understand that fact?
Third, Allen's book is not a "secondary source" - it is PRIMARY SOURCE, unless you're going to read the hieroglyphs. Do you read hieroglyphs? If so, you should already have known these facts, or else you are one of the worst students around.
Fourth, "stand up" means to rise from the dead - you're lack of understanding of these facts means that I really don't care what you've said or claimed - you are ignorant and not an expert on this subject at all, as you have repeatedly demonstrated here. Osiris WAS resurrected from the dead, repeatedly, every day and every time a deceased person received the last rites. YOU ARE UTTERLY IGNORANT OF THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION, and, again, I have NO interest in your opinion about it.
You are not really here interested in facts or primary sources, as you keep squawking. You have been trained in the dishonest and deceitful practice of Christian apologetics, which basically teaches people to deny and lie.
Quote:
FIFTH, Concerning the first chapter/spell of the Book of the Dead, Sir Peter le Page Renouf, a Keeper of the Egyptology Department at the British Museum, says in reference to "Words which bring about Resurrection and Glory," as rendered in the rubric of the chapter, "The 'raising up" or 'resurrection' here spoken of is said not only of the soul but of the body of the deceased person." (Renouf, 3.)
MY RESPONSE: Can he cite a primary source that says that? Again, these are all SECONDARY SOURCES. Can he cite a primary source B.C. that specifically states Osiris (not "deceaded person") was resurrected from the dead? The answer is an emphatic no.
The Book of the Dead IS a primary source - how imbecilic. The RUBRIC is the title of the CHAPTER from the BOOK OF THE DEAD. Renouf IS translating it here. Again, do you want Acharya to provide the original HIEROGLYPHS? She can - because Renouf himself does, but you didn't know that because YOU DON'T KNOW THE SUBJECT AT ALL AND YOUR OPINION ABOUT IT IS THEREFORE IRRELEVANT.
Quote:
SIXTH, Chapter/spell 177 in the BD is entitled, "Chapter for raising up a spirit and causing a soul to live in the God's Domain." (Faulkner, EBD, 131.)
MY RESPONSE: Raising up a spirit is not the raising up of a body (resurrection).
SEVENTH, Chapter/spell 178 in the BD is entitled, "Chapter for raising the corpse..." (Faulkner, EBD, 131.)
MY RESPONSE: That chapter is not talking about Osiris corpse.
Ah, so all of a sudden you've realized that we ARE dealing with primary sources - but no apology for your previous dishonesty is forthcoming.
First of all, that chapter about the spirit shows a RESURRECTION that is not different from the Christian one, so quit pretending there's some giant gap there. There isn't - and, again, you would know all this if you actually knew the subject. But, again, your posts have repeatedly proved that your are IGNORANT of the subject.
As you prove once again with your comments about "raising the corpse." Yes, it IS Osiris's corpse. Even though Acharya's laid it all out above - and she certainly didn't need to respond to the likes of you in the first place - you completely ignored what she wrote and went on to provide your own uninformed opinion. Have you read the Book of the Dead? No.
If you had studied the subject - which you haven't - you would know that the deceased - the CORPSE - in the Book of the Dead is OSIRIS. The whole point of the Egyptian funeral religion is to RAISE THE DEAD AS OSIRIS. Your ignorance shines through in every post. Your training at the deceptive Christian apologetics school is good for those who are ignorant of the subject, but it won't fly here.
Quote:
EIGTH, Egyptologist Dr. Samuel Mercer's rendering of Pyramid Text Pyr. 1339a is:
To say: Osiris N., he who killed thee is brought to thee; cut (him) up; perform his execution.
MY RESPONSE: Still, no resurrection.
NINTH, Mercer, 218.
Dr. James P. Allen translates the same utterance (P 492) thus:
Osiris Pepi, I have gotten for you the one who killed you, cut you up, with a knife used against him.
MY RESPONSE: Still no resurrection.
So, again, you've been forced to capitulate that there HAVE BEEN PRIMARY SOURCES PROVIDED HERE, but no honest acknowledgement of your past LIES about them not being provide is forthcoming from you. No apology to Acharya for LYING that you had read her posts and that there were no primary sources here.
No, instead of proving yourself HONEST and REPUTABLE, you go on to raise a straw man. Acharya provided you those PRIMARY SOURCES because you previously LIED that "Osiris never died." Then, after she proved you WRONG, like the sleazy apologist, you came back to claim you were talking about Mithra. Nobody was talking about Mithra, so neither were you. You were just sliming your way out of your ignorance and lies.
So, those quotes were designed to PROVE THAT OSIRIS DIED, despite your erroneous claims - and you've made so many that it's impossible to pay attention to anything you say.
Quote:
TENTH, Allen, Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, 172.
"Pepi" is the name of the deceased in this particular Pyramid Text, who takes the role of Osiris for the precise reason that Osiris died and was resurrected.
MY RESPONSE: That's a secondary quote from Allen. The actual pyramid text does not say Osiris was resurrected.
That's a quote from ACHARYA, but you are incapable of following scholarship. Did you even graduate from high school - remind me to avoid the school system you were in. ACHARYA is clarifying there the paragraph above - that's what SCHOLARS do for their readers.
Again, you prove yourself not to know what you are talking about, which is probably because you have no credentials, are not a scholar and don't know the subject.
Quote:
ELEVENTH, At Pyramid Text 606:1683a-1685b/M 336, Horus is vividly described as raising Osiris from the dead and avenging him:
MY RESPONSE: The actual Pyrimod text does not say he was resurrected. That statement is a secondary source.
TWELVE,
Stand up for me, father! Stand up for me, Osiris N…! It is I, your son: I am Horus.
MY RESPONSE: Again, Osiris was zombified, not resurrrected.
Yes, the passage DOES say Osiris was RESURRECTED, but you wouldn't know that, because you don't know the Egyptian language or religion at all. So, your opinion on the subject is irrelevant - but your pushiness, conceit and arrogance are certainly astounding.
Again, Osiris was RESURRECTED, not "zombified" - do you even know what the term means? You are just parroting your equally erroneous Christian mentors.
Quote:
THIRTEEN, I have come for you that I might clean you, cleanse you, revive you, assemble for you your bones, collect for you your swimming parts, and assemble for you your dismembered parts. For I am Horus who saves his father…
MY RESPONSE: There are several issues here. First, we are assuming these are correctly translated. Second, what do these Pyrimid texts date to? Third, none of this is a resurrection from the dead. Again, Osiris was resusitated to be ruler of the shadowy realm of the dead. His body was NEVER resurrected.
ACHARYA PROVIDED THE DATES ABOVE BUT, PROVING YOU ARE A LIAR, YOU DIDN'T READ THEM. Her post - right there on the first page - is even titled DATES OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN TEXTS:
Quote:
Dates of Ancient Egyptian Texts
In their ignorance of history, Christian apologists appear to be oblivious to the obvious fact that the ancient Egyptian texts predate the common era by hundreds to thousands of years. Note that I start this thread with a discussion of the BIBLICAL passage regarding Tammuz. The Old Testament both predates the common era and is considered a "primary source." Naturally, those who have not studied the subject will continue to repeat falsehoods denying these pre-Christian primary source texts.
Pyramid Texts - c. 2000 BCE at the latest
Coffin Texts - c. 2000 BCE
Book of the Dead - c. 1600 BCE
And here again you should you know nothing about the subject, because you could easily have looked that up. Too lazy even to do that, eh?
And, yes, it was RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD. As you have proved over and over again, you don't know the subject, so your opinion - and that of your equally ignorant mentors - is irrelevant. Acharya also provided the opinions of REAL EGYPTOLOGISTS, not Christian apologists out of their league who are pretending to be experts on things they don't know about.
Quote:
FOURTEEN, Allen, J., AEPT, 226; Mercer, 257; Faulkner, AEPT, 250.
The Osiris-King is also vividly resurrected by Horus at PT 662:1878a-1879b:
Let them who are in their graves, arise; let them undo their bandages. Shake off the sand from thy face; raise thyself up (from) on thy left side, support thyself on thy right side (upright). Raise thy face, that thou mayest see that which I have done for thee. I am thy son, I am thine heir.
MY RESPONSE: See above.
See MY response above. Your opinion is irrelevant. Acharya provided you exactly what you asked for, and now you are acting like a typical Christian apologist by denying and lying.
Quote:
FIFTEEN, Mercer, 280.
THOSE ARE ALL PRIMARY SOURCES - GET IT? What part of the PYRAMID TEXTS, COFFIN TEXTS and BOOK OF THE DEAD did you not understand? Acharya even included DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS of the same passages.
MY RESPONSE: No, they are secondary quotes from later authors. The authors used the word "resurrection" because it is their presupposition. But the texts themselves do not say Osiris rose from the dead. Osiris was zombified to be ruler of the shawdowy realm of the dead. His body was never resurrected. Unless you are trained in critical thought, comparative religions and philology, you will fail to make this distinction.
Again, NO primary sources have been given that pre-date the Christian era showing Osiris' body was raised from the dead (resurrection).
I have seen a lot of secondary sources, but no primary sources.
Zombification and resusitation in the realm of the dead? Sure. Resurrection from the dead? no.
No, they are TRANSLATIONS OF PRIMARY SOURCES. Again, do you read hieroglyphs? So, I guess if the hieroglyphs are provided here, you will be able to read them perfectly? Does that mean we can't rely on any translations of the Bible? Again,
do YOU read the Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek? If we can't rely on any translation of the Bible, then why are missionaries worldwide translating Bibles into dozens of different languages?
Unless YOU are trained in real SCHOLARSHIP, you will continue to make these erroneous claims. Your Christian theologians are NOT superior to Egyptologists in their knowledge of the Egyptian religion. Are you saying that the Egyptologists' minds are not enlightened enough to understand the true meaning of the hieroglyphs because they're not saved and baptized well enough according to your standards? So, the minds of the Egyptologists are too diabolical to be presenting the true meanings, even though some of them are CHRISTIANS themselves? Now, that would be an example of a typical Christian arrogance and bigotry - thanks!
Nor are YOU a scholar of anything we have discussed here, so, once more, your opinion is irrelevant. But your dishonesty is breathtaking.
GreekOrthodoxy, thanks for being the perfect foil here, revealing your ignorance and dishonesty. It has given us the chance to show what dishonest and deceitful tactics apologists use. You sir, are an embarrassment to humanity and so are the Christian apologists you're repeating here. Your beliefs have held humanity back from its full potential and sustainable peace for far, far too long. If there is a God at all - you're utterly embarrassing
HER.
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