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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:07 am 
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Lets try to stay on topic ... I moved the recent posts from Horus and jdbugbuster over to the "Historicity of the Bible" section under the thread titled...

Piso Theory of Christian Origins
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2371&start=0

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GreekOrthodoxy said earlier that Dr. Yamauchi Knows 22 languages. After reading through Lee Strobel's book "Case for the Real Jesus" he cites Yamauchi making commentary about the Egyptian religion. I must say that Yamauchi's comments demonstrate such a poor knowledge of the Egyptian religion. Apparently he needs to be informed that reading an encyclopedia in 22 different languages is still just getting your info from encyclopedias.

Other commentary in Strobel's book isn't much better. It reads like these guys got their degrees from a Sears catalog and got their info about other religions from encyclopedia entries. It really is pathetic.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:27 pm 
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Freethink, the ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PYRAMID TEXTS say absolutely nothing of Osiris resurrection B.C. You need to develop critical thought skills.

Justin Martyr never said that the alleged parallels existed before Christ. You have taken him out of context and this shows me that you have not watched the vidoes that refute Zeitgeist because it address this issue. Justin was arguing to the pagans and trying to reach to them by showing that according to the pagan claims, there were parallels so Christianity was not so bad. But Justin actually goes beyond the evidence at this point as the video explains.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Acharya wrote:
PRIMARY SOURCES IN EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHS DATING TO C. 1600 BCE

Following are images of the Book of the Dead of the original texts, specifically from Chapter 178, which is titled, "CHAPTER OF RAISING UP THE BODY" - that is Budge's TRANSLATION of the ORIGINAL EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHS. Faulkner's translation is, as we have seen, "Chapter for raising the corpse" (1998 edition) or "Spell for raising the corpse" (1972 edition). Elsewhere, Budge renders the Egyptian title as "CHAPTER OF RAISING UP THE DEAD BODY."

All images are from:

Budge, E.A. Wallis, The Book of the Dead/The Chapters of Coming Forth by Day, Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co., London, 1898. I use this edition because it is the only one that presents the hieroglyphs in full. Faulkner's translation does not, because he only includes the Papyrus of Ani, while this text is from the Papyrus of Nebseni (BM EA 9900). Unfortunately, I do not possess a copy of Dr. Thomas George Allen's respected translation of the Book of the Dead.

Notice the title of the Chapter I am providing here in the original hieroglyphs - THE CHAPTER OF RAISING UP THE BODY - which I have highlighted in read. The title is original to the text in which the images are found. Also, the title is part of the original hieroglyphs as well, called a "rubric."

Note again that the entire Egyptian funerary/mortuary literature overall is specifically designed to resurrect the dead, who is called "Osiris" for the specific reason that he is to emulate OSIRIS'S RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, both spiritually and physically.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Do have fun with this ORIGINAL PRIMARY SOURCE. And while you're at it, be sure to read the entire New Testament in the original Greek. We will henceforth discuss the gospel story ONLY in ancient Greek, as we obviously cannot trust any translation of it. I will very much enjoy analyzing the original Greek in much the same way as I have done here with the Egyptian and as I have done in my books. Of course, those who have not read my books would not know that fact.


Osiris' resurrection from the dead, is not in this HIEROGLYPH. Nice try but you lose again. This is really easy folks.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:33 pm 
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Again, as scholars have noted and universally agree today, Osiris was NOT resurrected from the dead. He was ZOMBIFIED / resucitated. Huge difference.

The evidence of Osiris resucitation -- not resurrection -- date to prior to the middle of the late 2nd century AD. [see Habermas, Replies to Evan Fales: The Appearances of Jesus, Philosophia Christi, Series 2, 3.1 (2001), 79].

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Even if Osiris was resurrected, it does not prove Christianity copied from that myth. To suggest this would be to engage in the fallacy of false cause. B comes after A, but A does not cause B.

But Osiris wasn't resurrected so there is no issue here.

Osiris resurrected? Not if "resurrection" is defined as coming back in a glorified body. On this point Miller has done some substantial work, reporting the words of J. Z. Smith, so I will let these speak to begin:

"Osiris was murdered and his body dismembered and scattered. The pieces of his body were recovered and rejoined, and the god was rejuvenated. However, he did not return to his former mode of existence but rather journeyed to the underworld, where he became the powerful lord of the dead. In no sense can Osiris be said to have 'risen' in the sense required by the dying and rising pattern (as described by Frazer et.al.); most certainly it was never considered as an annual event."

"In no sense can the dramatic myth of his death and reanimation be harmonized to the pattern of dying and rising gods (as described by Frazer et.al.)."

"The repeated formula 'Rise up, you have not died,' whether applied to Osiris or a citizen of Egypt, signaled a new, permanent life in the realm of the dead."

Frankfort concurs:

"Osiris, in fact, was not a 'dying' god at all but a 'dead' god. He never returned among the living; he was not liberated from the world of the dead, as Tammuz was. On the contrary, Osiris altogether belonged to the world of the dead; it was from there that he bestowed his blessings upon Egypt. He was always depicted as a mummy, a dead king." [Kingship and the gods: a study of ancient Near Eastern religion as the integration of society & nature. UChicago:1978 edition, p.289]

Osiris did not rise; he ruled in the abode of the dead. As biblical scholar, Roland de Vaux, wrote, "What is meant of Osiris being 'raised to life?' Simply that, thanks to the ministrations of Isis, he is able to lead a life beyond the tomb which is an almost perfect replica of earthly existence.

But he will never again come among the living and will reign only over the dead.… This revived god is in reality a 'mummy' god."... No, the mummified Osiris was hardly an inspiration for the resurrected Christ...As Yamauchi observes,

"Ordinary men aspired to identification with Osiris as one who had triumphed over death." But it is a mistake to equate the Egyptian view of the afterlife with the biblical doctrine of resurrection. To achieve immortality the Egyptian had to meet three conditions: First, his body had to be preserved by mummification. Second, nourishment was provided by the actual offering of daily bread and beer. Third, magical spells were interred with him. His body did not rise from the dead; rather elements of his personality-his Ba and Ka-continued to hover over his body. ["The Resurrection of Jesus Christ: Myth, Hoax, or History?" David J. MacLeod, in The Emmaus Journal, V7 #2, Winter 98, p 169

Frazer [Fraz.AAO, viii] wrote that every dead man was given Osiris' name on top of his own in order to identify with the god.

So O's "resurrection" is no resurrection at all -- and in fact was actually a sort of function of the way the Egyptian gods were, shall we say, being half Frankenstein, half Lego set. There are in fact many stories of the Egyptian gods flinging various body parts around, and to no overall harm, because "divine bodies were thought to be impervious to change" [Meek.DL, 57] and so O's dead body neither rotted nor decomposed as it waited to be put back together. This is how it was with all these Egyptian gods: Seth and Horus have a fight in which they throw dung at each other then steal each others' genitals [Bud.ERR, 64].

Horus' eye is stolen by Set, but Horus gets it back and gives it to Osiris, who eats it [ibid., 88]. Horus had a headache, and another deity offers to loan him his head until the headache went away [Meek.DL, 57].

Osiris did pay a price for his dismembering death, in that he was limited to the world of the dead [and manifestly ignorant as a result of what went on "above ground" -- Meek.DL, 88-9], but that is only because he had actually died once before when his father accidentally killed him [ibid., 80].

Source: Holding (tektonics.org)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:19 pm 
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GreekOrthodoxy wrote:
Again, as scholars have noted and universally agree today, Osiris was NOT resurrected from the dead. He was ZOMBIFIED / resucitated. Huge difference.

The evidence of Osiris resucitation -- not resurrection -- date to prior to the middle of the late 2nd century AD. [see Habermas, Replies to Evan Fales: The Appearances of Jesus, Philosophia Christi, Series 2, 3.1 (2001), 79].


:shock: And I thought I was the bonehead! Scholars have noted universally the earth was flat when even older civilisations knew better! Are you a glutton for torture?! You going to wriggle around about 'zombification', rescusitation, as if that were proof that your beloved Lord's birth, death and resurerection (:twisted:) in the flesh were literally proven! Geez...seems to me only a very few people claiming to be witnesses could tell that tall tale. A tale is all it is and will be. Your Scholars are full of NON-sense, as are that hoary tales' 'interpreters'.

Where is your proof that these things actually occured?! Primary evidence please outside of gossipy fairy tales.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:09 pm 
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Quote:
"Osiris' resurrection from the dead, is not in this HIEROGLYPH. Nice try but you lose again. This is really easy folks."

LOL, so now you read ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs? You never did answer the question I asked long ago, if you could even read the bible in its original languages of Greek or Hebrew. What is your answer to that question?

GreekOrthodoxy is back with the same typical apologist tactics of deny & dismiss, quoting the same Christian "biblical scholars" and apologists. And my favorite: "Source: Holding (tektonics.org)"

JP Holding has no qualifications whatsoever in any Biblical field, knows no Biblical languages, and has no relevant training, yet has the temerity to presume that his OPINION is enough, and that his personal FAITH is all that he needs, to offer a vicious and vitriolic critique of credible credentialed scholars who are trained in this area of expertise. JP Holding has no training in comparative religion. No training in mythology. No training in archaeoastronomy. No training in astrotheology. Nothing relevant.

So, don't take my word for it...see it for yourself.

TEKTONICS.ORG: EXPOSED!
http://the-anointed-one.com/exposed.html

'James Patrick Holding, the Want-to-Be Apologist'
http://www.infidels.org/library/magazin ... 24jph.html

JP Holding Exposed
http://the-anointed-one.com/search2.htm

'Dishonesty by Robert Turkel (J.P. Holding)'
http://www.discord.org/~lippard/turkeldishonesty.html

A Reply to J. P. Holding
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... lding.html

"Writing James P Holding Off!"
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.c ... g-off.html

"Prove Jesus Existed, Please!"
http://www.truthbeknown.com/holding.htm

James Patrick Holding: Another Apostate With Selective Education
http://www.darrellwconder.com/debate1.html

Do a google for JP Holding and his alt. "Sheila Rangslinger" -

"DISCLOSURE FROM ADMIN: "Sheila Rangslinger" was discovered to be a sock puppet identity created by J.P. Holding. Any statements about J.P. Holding in this post were written by J.P. Holding himself."

Q. "What are your credentials?" A. "I have a Masters' Degree in Library Science. What the runs down to is, I'm an expert at looking things up and answering questions" ~ JP Holding


* For your edification, enjoy this thread about Holdings latest book, "Shattering the Christ Myth"

Shattering Holding's Anti-Mythicist book
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2255

LOL - ROTFLMAO

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 Post subject: OSIRIS WAS RESURRECTED
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:34 pm 
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OSIRIS WAS RESURRECTED

I have read much of The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel, whose previous work The Case for Christ very weak indeed but manage to convince millions to cling to unfounded and absurd beliefs.

In the first place, Mike Licona is not a credible scholar at all. Some of his remarks reveal a very cursory knowledge of the subject he pretends to be an expert in. His life's mission is to "prove" to the world that a Jewish guy rose from the dead and flew up into heaven. His "too cool" remarks in Strobel's book reflect conceit in his knowledge, which is very shallow in reality. Like other Christian apologists, Licona merely bats away inferences that Christianity is a merger of Paganism and Judaism, which turns out to be the most sensible and rational explanation for its rise - and the most well founded based on all the evidence.

Edwin Yamauchi is a fervent fundamentalist Christian whose occupation is to uphold his Christian faith no matter what. Because of his ability to maintain the status quo, he is given accolades and widely promoted. Some of his comments in Strobel's books, however, are strikingly irrational and indicative of a profound lack of knowledge of the subject matter. In some cases, he seems to have skimmed encyclopedias in order to present himself as an authority on a subject that is far deeper than he lets on--or that he knows about. This assertion is particularly so when it comes to the matter of Osiris, whom he dismisses offhand with remarks that indicate he knows VERY little about the Egyptian religion and Osiris's role in it. He seems to be merely quoting another Christian apologist - Nash, perhaps? Or the very flawed treatment in The Encyclopedia of Religion, edited by Mircea Eliade, which contains the nonsensical remark: "In no sense can Osiris be said to have 'risen' in the sense required by the dying and rising pattern; most certainly it was never conceived as an annual event." (Eliade, 4:524.) It doesn't appear that Yamauchi has read a single ancient Egyptian text, as he would know that there is far more to the story than the short encyclopedia entry about the Osiris myth that he is relying on.

Why doesn't Strobel take his unimpressive reporter's skills to EGYPTOLOGISTS, rather than asking a fervent Christian apologist who is most definitely NOT an expert on the Egyptian religion?

Perhaps because he would discover that - knowing the ancient Egyptian texts inside and out in their original languages - they say things like the following by renowned Egyptologist Dr. James P. Allen, as concerns the cross-like Djed pillar, an "icon of Osiris":

Quote:
It was erected in a rite symbolizing Osiris's revivification after death.

This remark comes at the end of his 400-page translation of the many Pyramid Texts. (Allen, Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, 428.) The word "revivification" means "to restore to life; give new life to; revive; reanimate" and is an alternative to RESURRECTION, as one could probably figure. Notice that this "revivification" is AFTER DEATH, as it must be, when someone is RESTORED TO LIFE. Note that the raising of the Djed pillar was an ANNUAL EVENT, so the remark above is not only nonsensical but doubly wrong.

And speaking of Egyptologist Dr. Henri Frankfort, here's what he also says in the book Kingship and the Gods - conveniently ignored by our omniscient apologist when holding up Frankfort's later remarks. Regarding the Djed pillar, Frankfort says (128):

Quote:
Upon this site thus consecrated the Djed pillar is erected. This ceremony is part of the rites of royalty and probably serves as a symbol of rebirth and resurrection.... Thus, the erection of the pillar, the concluding rite for the king's predecessor, is his resurrection in the Hereafter.

Again, this erection of the Djed pillar symbolizing Osiris's - and the Osiris king's - resurrection from the dead occurred as a RITUAL and an ANNUAL EVENT.

Frankfort also states(184-186):

Quote:
...Osiris...is the dead king. But since kings were divine, since the power they embodied was the essence of nature itself, since Osiris was the son of Geb and Nut, his life could not end; his death was transfiguration. His power was recognized in that life which breaks forth periodically from the earth, everlastingly renewed. Hence Osiris was the god of resurrection.

After his remarks attempting to delineate various spiritual and mystical concepts - such as "he was not a 'dying god' but - if the paradox be permitted - a dead god," Frankfort next says of Osiris:
Quote:
His resurrection meant his entry upon life in the Beyond, and it was one of the inspiring truths of Egyptian religion that, notwithstanding his death, Osiris became manifest as life in the world of men. From his grave in the earth or in the depleted Nile, from the world of the dead, his power emanated, mysteriously transmuted into a variety of natural phenomena which had one common feature: they waxed and waned.

Hence, you can see that using Frankfort's mystical pronouncements regarding Osiris to disprove his resurrection constitutes little more than obfuscation. We can also see that there is very little within Christianity that cannot be found within the Egyptian religion, such as the god who constitutes ETERNAL LIFE emanating throughout the cosmos. Also, this concept of Osiris not being a "dying god" presented in Frankfort's terms is deceiving because in the mythos Osiris most certainly is ALIVE and then dies. So, at one point he certainly IS a dying god - the theological hair-splitting would hardly have been apparent to the average Egyptian, who doubtlessly viewed Osiris's death and resurrection in much the way Christians do today with Jesus Christ.

Moreover, just one page further, we find Frankfort's discussion of Osiris as a grain god, in which he states:

Quote:
The temple ritual of the Ptolemaic period included the preparation of "Osiris beds" or "gardens" in several of the main sanctuaries and there, again, the sprouting of the grain signified the resurrection of the god.

As we can see, the god is resurrected, and, moreover, this resurrection constitutes part of a RITUAL done on a regular basis.

Even earlier (197), Frankfort remarks:

Quote:
If many natural phenomena can be interpreted as resurrections, the power of resurrection is peculiarly Osiris' own.... his was the gift of revival, of resurrection.

Frankfort also says:

Quote:
Osiris, then, defeats death.... His fate might be construed as a promise of future life for all....

So, how is being the god of resurrection who defeats death - meaning he was dead and is now RESURRECTED - and whose fate could be viewed as bringing about the "promise of future life for all" - "very different" from Jesus's role? Not at all. It is clear that Christianity merely rehashed these profound spiritual concepts that were well developed many centuries before the common era.

And our all-knowing apologist has also ignored this comment of Frankfort's from the same page (197):

Quote:
Osiris was resurrected, but he did not resume his former existence.

Osiris WAS resurrected, but - precisely like Jesus - he did not resume his former existence. Depending on which fictional and contradictory gospel account you wish to follow, Jesus only hung around on this plane - in a transfigured body, not as an earthling - for a few days, until he too ended up in "heaven" or the netherworld. The facts could not be clearer - and there is no "huge difference" between Osiris and Jesus. And yes, indeed, it IS very easy, folks.

We also find Frankfort remarking early on (4):

Quote:
There were annual festivals connected with the rise of the Nile and the end of the inundation; with the resurrection of Osiris; and with the completion of the harvest.

Naturally, our apologist has skipped this part in his erroneous assertion that there were no rituals associated with the RESURRECTION OF OSIRIS.

And then we have this little gem from Frankfort (5), who essentially states that RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD is a common concept in the ancient world:

Quote:
In both Mesopotamia and Egypt religion centered around the problem of maintaining life.... inescapable death was accepted; but it was counterbalanced by the recurring miracle of resurrection.

But wait - there's more!

Later Frankfort reveals his knowledge of the astrotheological meaning behind the resurrection:

Quote:
Since the Primeval Hill was the place of sunrise and creation, and hence the place of rebirth and resurrection.

The place of sunrise - where Osiris is resurrected as Horus - is that of rebirth and RESURRECTION.

Despite all the nitpicking and hair-splitting, these apologists are simply wrong in their contentions regarding pre-Christian religious concepts, but we can see from the example here that their modus operandi is simply to deny and dismiss, even when the data are placed right in front of them. Notice also how apologists make irrational demands for proof of other people's faith, but for their own they require little to none. Also, while they dun you with requests for "primary sources," they themselves can't actually read them, so they can then dismiss them that way. AND they themselves also don't require ANY primary sources for their own beliefs but rely heavily on the opinions of others, while dismissing the opinions of experts on other faiths, such as Dr. James P. Allen.

As one can see, the rabid belief in Christianity truly makes people dishonest, as it compels them to believe in something without any proof and to deny evidence boldly in front of them.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:51 pm 
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The time has come for GreekOrthodoxy (Holding's puppet?) and all Christians to step up to the plate and take...

The Jesus Challenge
viewtopic.php?t=2366

:wink:

Hey Rene, would those be "gossipel fairytales?" :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:25 pm 
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GreekOrthodoxy wrote:
Osiris' resurrection from the dead, is not in this HIEROGLYPH. Nice try but you lose again. This is really easy folks.


You can't read it. How do you know it's not? Somehow, I trust Acharya's translation over yours. You're too creepy to believe. Much like the pope and that preacher in Poltergist.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:37 pm 
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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
The time has come for GreekOrthodoxy (Holding's puppet?) and all Christians to step up to the plate and take...

The Jesus Challenge
viewtopic.php?t=2366

:wink:

Hey Rene, would those be "gossipel fairytales?" :twisted:


Very good Freethinka! I like "gossipel fairytales" much better! Now why didn't I think of that. :evil:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Engaging in ad hominem personal attacks only weakens your argument, Freethink. Holding is a world class historian and scholar. Deal with ARGUMENTS, not individuals. Those are lies anyway. You are being lied to.

Osiris was NOT resurrected. See:

Code:
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html


Osiris' served to provide hope to all that they may do likewise and become eternal. This is where we find some of the biggest misuse of terminology, including by some Egyptian scholars of religion (who do not go on to posit a "copycat" relationship!). Osiris resurrected? Not if "resurrection" is defined as coming back in a glorified body. On this point Miller has done some substantial work, reporting the words of J. Z. Smith, so I will let these speak to begin:

"Osiris was murdered and his body dismembered and scattered. The pieces of his body were recovered and rejoined, and the god was rejuvenated. However, he did not return to his former mode of existence but rather journeyed to the underworld, where he became the powerful lord of the dead. In no sense can Osiris be said to have 'risen' in the sense required by the dying and rising pattern (as described by Frazer et.al.); most certainly it was never considered as an annual event."
"In no sense can the dramatic myth of his death and reanimation be harmonized to the pattern of dying and rising gods (as described by Frazer et.al.)."

"The repeated formula 'Rise up, you have not died,' whether applied to Osiris or a citizen of Egypt, signaled a new, permanent life in the realm of the dead."

Frankfort concurs:

"Osiris, in fact, was not a 'dying' god at all but a 'dead' god. He never returned among the living; he was not liberated from the world of the dead, as Tammuz was. On the contrary, Osiris altogether belonged to the world of the dead; it was from there that he bestowed his blessings upon Egypt. He was always depicted as a mummy, a dead king." [Kingship and the gods: a study of ancient Near Eastern religion as the integration of society & nature. UChicago:1978 edition, p.289].

Osiris did not rise; he ruled in the abode of the dead. As biblical scholar, Roland de Vaux, wrote,

"What is meant of Osiris being 'raised to life?' Simply that, thanks to the ministrations of Isis, he is able to lead a life beyond the tomb which is an almost perfect replica of earthly existence. But he will never again come among the living and will reign only over the dead.… This revived god is in reality a 'mummy' god."... No, the mummified Osiris was hardly an inspiration for the resurrected Christ...

As Yamauchi observes,

"Ordinary men aspired to identification with Osiris as one who had triumphed over death." But it is a mistake to equate the Egyptian view of the afterlife with the biblical doctrine of resurrection. To achieve immortality the Egyptian had to meet three conditions: First, his body had to be preserved by mummification. Second, nourishment was provided by the actual offering of daily bread and beer. Third, magical spells were interred with him. His body did not rise from the dead; rather elements of his personality-his Ba and Ka-continued to hover over his body. ["The Resurrection of Jesus Christ: Myth, Hoax, or History?" David J. MacLeod, in The Emmaus Journal, V7 #2, Winter 98, p169.

Frazer [Fraz.AAO, viii] wrote that every dead man was given Osiris' name on top of his own in order to identify with the god.

So O's "resurrection" is no resurrection at all -- and in fact was actually a sort of function of the way the Egyptian gods were, shall we say, being half Frankenstein, half Lego set. There are in fact many stories of the Egyptian gods flinging various body parts around, and to no overall harm, because "divine bodies were thought to be impervious to change" [Meek.DL, 57] and so O's dead body neither rotted nor decomposed as it waited to be put back together. This is how it was with all these Egyptian gods: Seth and Horus have a fight in which they throw dung at each other then steal each others' genitals [Bud.ERR, 64]. Horus' eye is stolen by Set, but Horus gets it back and gives it to Osiris, who eats it [ibid., 88]. Horus had a headache, and another deity offers to loan him his head until the headache went away [Meek.DL, 57]. Osiris did pay a price for his dismembering death, in that he was limited to the world of the dead [and manifestly ignorant as a result of what went on "above ground" -- Meek.DL, 88-9], but that is only because he had actually died once before when his father accidentally killed him [ibid., 80].

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Quote:
"Engaging in ad hominem personal attacks only weakens your argument, Freethink."

There's a difference between ad homs and facts, JP.

Quote:
"Holding is a world class historian and scholar. Deal with ARGUMENTS, not individuals. Those are lies anyway. You are being lied to."

LOL, ROTFLMAO!!! Okay JP, whatever you say...except, what is this - an inadvertent admission?
Quote:
Q. "What are your credentials?" A. "I have a Masters' Degree in Library Science. What the runs down to is, I'm an expert at looking things up and answering questions" ~ JP Holding

So you've got the qualifications of an average librarian - A "world class historian and scholar" you will never be.

J.Z. Smith?

Here's a review by Dr. Robert Price of The Institute for Higher Critical Studies http://depts.drew.edu/jhc/jzsmith.html

Your circle jerking apologist tactics of deny, dismiss & omit will not suffice, JP. I'm surprised you haven't been throwing around your typical personal insults.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:44 pm 
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So Greek Orthodoxy is JP Holding.

That figures. Nice try though JP. :wink:

Would you kindly translate the Hieroglyphs line by line for us so that we can see that you know what they say and critic your translation?

This shouldn't be hard for someone who reads the Hieroglyphic language.

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