Freethought Nation

As explained to KD8 for over two years now throughout this thread, we'd have to essentially write a book explaining everything at an almost elementary level

KD8 has refused to read these books for 8 years now, yet, he STILL has the temerity to make such demands as we need to cater to him by presenting him with all the evidence that would be much easier for him to read for himself.

KD8 has absolutely no relevant credentials or qualifications to speak of so what exactly does KD8 think he's going to do with all this information?

All of these points have been thoroughly explained in excruciating detail throughout this thread many, many times yet, KD8 still doesn't get it. KD8 omits all the times he's been proven wrong here and his errors yet, he comes back to post again as if it never happened.

Presenting the evidence isn't the difficult part - it's explaining it to KD8 so even he can understand it.

I guess KD8 is just in need of more attention and wants to waste our time by going down this road again.

Maybe you guys can agree to some approximate "deadline" for when Tat will have this ready?

"All it would take is about a dozen pieces of evidence, which would not take a book's-length text to present..."

That's because you've all done everything except present the evidence for at least half of the claims for a single deity, which is all I was asking. If you'd just done it right up front, it would have been a lot quicker and easier than giving excuses as to why you won't do so.

If people were presenting the evidence and I was failing to understand it, then maybe you'd have a point. But the problem isn't in my failure to understand the evidence, it's in the inability of mythicists to even present it in the first place. Pretending that I wouldn't understand the evidence is yet another way to avoid having to present it.

No, I just happened to visit and saw Tat's claim to have the evidence

Freethinkaluva,
I'm sorry, but the idea that presenting about a dozen pieces of evidence would require the kind of effort you're suggesting is ridiculous. You're obviously interested in giving excuses not to present the evidence, while Tat claims to be preparing the evidence for presentation, so I'll deal with her instead of you, if that's okay.

Freethinkaluva,
I'm sorry, but the idea that presenting about a dozen pieces of evidence would require the kind of effort you're suggesting is ridiculous. You're obviously interested in giving excuses not to present the evidence, while Tat claims to be preparing the evidence for presentation, so I'll deal with her instead of you, if that's okay.

2. Born in a cave/manger

- In "On Mankind: Their Origin and Destiny," Arthur Thomson summarizes the story of the baby sun at the winter solstice, who was born of a virgin mother, specifically as applied to Horus and Isis:

"The Egyptians did in fact celebrate at the winter solstice the birth of the son of Isis (Plut. De Iside), and the delivery of the goddess who had brought this young child into the world, feeble and weak, and in the midst of the darkest night. This child, according to Macrobius, was the god of light, Apollo, or the sun, painted with his head shorn of his beaming hair, his head shaved, and with only a single hair left. By this, says Macrobius, the dimness of the light at the winter solstice, and the shortness of the days as well as the darkness of the deep cave in which this god seemed to be born, and from which he issued forth to rise in the direction of the northern hemisphere and the summer solstice, in which he reassumed his dominion and his glory, was indicate..." (Macrob. Sat. 1. I. cap. xxi)

- CIE, 111

Arthur Dyot Thomson, M.A. of Balliol College, Oxford, page 469

http://books.google.com/books?id=M24PAA ... ve&f=false

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University professor Dr. David Leeming:

"It was believed the evening sun penetrated a cave in the west, and over a period of twelve hours passed through the underworld from which it emerges the next morning, regenerated."

http://books.google.com/books?id=g0QQtl ... ve&f=false

Horus is the sun born in the morning, he thus emerges from the underworld, which is a CAVE. The manger concept can be found in the Epiphanius material vis-a-vis the virgin Kore. That can be tied into the baby sun-god Sokar, identified with Horus, who is brought out of the temple each year in an "ark" or "manger."

(Dr. David Adams Leeming, professor emeritus of English and comparative literature at the University of Connecticut)

3. Birth announced by a star in the East

- "At PT 593:1636a/M 206, Sirius’s announcement of Osiris is also discussed in terms of the god spreading his “seed” or “semen” upon Isis in order to create Horus..."

- CIE, 202

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Regarding the role of Sirius/Sothis in Egyptian mythology, in The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, Egyptologist James Allen states:

"Sothis (spdt "Sharp"). The morning star, Sirius ... The star's rising was also seen as a harbinger of the sunrise and therefore associated with Horus in his solar aspect, occasionally specified as Horus in Sothis (hrw jmj spdt), Sothic Horus (hrw spdtj), or Sharp Horus (hrw spd)."

- CIE, 201

In addition, Pyramid Text 593:1636b/M 206 states: "Horus the pointed has come forth from thee, in his name of 'Horus who was in Sothis.'" "Horus in Sothis," therefore, refers to when the sun rises with Sirius. Thus, in ancient texts we find the birth of Horus the sun associated with the star in the east.

Egyptologist Dr. J. Gwyn Griffiths concurs that "the inundation of the Nile was often connected by the Egyptians with the heliacal rising of the star Sothis (the Dog Star, Sirius), seen in the constellation of Orion." To summarize, the three wise men serve as pointers for the star in the east, which in turn announces the savior of Egypt.

5. Was a child teacher in the temple at age 12

- "In the Egyptian story of Khamuas/Khamois found on Papyrus DCIV of the British Museum appears an interesting tale about Sa-Asar, Si-Osiris or Senosiris—the “son of Osiris”—who “grew rapidly in wisdom and knowledge of magic.” The tale continues: “When Si-Osiris was twelve years old he was wiser than the wisest of the scribes.”

- Folk-Lore, 498. Folk-Lore: A Quarterly Review of the Myth, Tradition, Institution, & Custom, David Nutt, London, 1901.

- CIE 213

FN. "The earliest date for papyrus DCIV is 46-47 AD/CE, as it is written on the back of official documents created at that time. Since there is absolutely no evidence for the existence at that time of the gospel of Luke, in which this story concerning Christ is contained—in fact there is no real scientific evidence for the existence of Luke’s gospel as we have it until the end of the second century—if the pertinent story regarding Senosiris also dates to that early time, it would serve as clear indication that the gospel story was borrowed from it and not the other way around."

- CIE 213

In The Dawn of Astronomy, [Royal Astronomer Sir Norman] Lockyer describes this process of Horus becoming Re at the hour or ―age‖ of 12:

"We have the form of Harpocrates at its rising, the child sun-god being generally represented by the figure of a hawk. When in human form, we notice the presence of a side lock of hair. The god Ra symbolises, it is said, the sun in his noontide strength; while for the time of sunset we have various names, chiefly Osiris, Tum, or Atmu, the dying sun represented by a mummy and typifying old age. The hours of the day were also personified, the twelve changes during the twelve hours being mythically connected with the sun‘s daily movement across the sky. The various "phases" of the sun‘s journey were given different personalities, while remaining one entity. Hence, Horus the Child wears the side lock until 12 noon when he becomes the adult Re."

The various “phases” of the sun’s journey were given different personalities, while remaining one entity. Hence, Horus the Child wears the side lock until 12 noon when he becomes the adult Re.

- CIE 214

Listen David, the way to go about this the way I was trying to go in the first place - posting information one claim at a time sorting through what's what.

"I come from an atheist background (my mom, who raised me was one, and I was an atheist until I was 20)."

"I am a former atheist who was swayed by the evidence, though not just for Jesus' historicity (as Ehrman was) but for His resurrection and divinity as well."

Will you be posting more?

7. Baptizer was decapitated

"In addition, in the gospel story John the Baptist is decapitated, while, as noted, at different times the constellation of Aquarius also appears to have lost its head. Furthermore, Isis is depicted as decapitated, as the constellation of Virgo at certain times, while Anubis too is associated with headlessness:

"Anubis has a special emblem symbolizing his role as an embalmer. It is a headless animal skin...sometimes dripping blood, tied to a pole. This emblem can also be jackal-headed, as in the Litany of Ra describing the sun-god’s journey through the underworld."

- CIE, 254

Hart, George, The Routledge Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses, Routledge, London/NY, 2005.

"(George Hart was the Curator in the Education Department of the British Museum, he specialised as an Education Officer for Egyptology)"
http://www.amazon.com/Routledge-Diction ... 0415361168

8. Had 12 disciples

"In the seventh hour or division of the Book of the Amduat, as found in the tomb of the pharaoh Tuthmosis/Thutmose III (15th cent. BCE), for example, “Horus of the netherworld” is clearly depicted seated on a throne as the sun god, with 12 “star gods” in front of him. Horus’s throne surrounded by “his Enneads” is also mentioned at CT Sp. 1099."

- CIE, 270, Erik Hornung, AEBA 48 (professor emeritus of Egyptology at the University of Basel from 1967 to 1998)

"...Horus is thus firmly associated with 12 “star-gods,” who, in conducting the sun god through his passage, can be deemed his “protectors,” “assistants” or “helpers,” etc."

- CIE 271