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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:40 am 
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Tucson, AZ, Jared Loughner and Zeitgeist

You've probably all heard about the recent tragedy is Tucson, Arizona, and Jared Loughner's shooting spree in the news.

Now, it's all over the news that "Zeitgeist" was one of Loughner's favorite documentaries. An Associated Press article has been sent to all news media outlets making this comment:
Quote:
"Loughner's favorites included little-known conspiracy theory documentaries such as 'Zeitgeist'..."

Here are a few articles with that sentence in it but, there are many more:

AP NewsBreak: More warning signs on day of shooting

More warning signs on day of shooting

Ariz. suspect's parents: 'We don't know why this happened'

Jared Loughner's Parents Devastated, Neighbor Says

Picture Of Suspect's Troubled Life Comes Into Focus

Astronaut Mark Kelly clutches his wife Gabrielle Giffords' hand as she fights for life in Arizona ICU

We would like to make the following statements regarding this terrible incident, which we condemn to the fullest:

1. To our knowledge, there has never been a single violent incident at any Zeitgeist meeting or showing worldwide, or any call to violence by any member of the Zeitgeist Movement or fan of the Zeitgeist films.

2. Jared Loughner's friend who claimed Zeitgeist was one of Loughner's favorite films hadn't seen him in two years.

3. Like the Zeitgeist Movement, we here at Freethought Nation, Truth Be Known and Stellar House Publishing are diametrically opposed to war and violence.

4. Acharya S was cited only in the first or religion part of the first Zeitgeist movie (2007) and had nothing to do with its production, Parts 2 or 3 thereof, or either of the other ZG films.

Also, Zeitgeist is not "little known," as it has been viewed by well over 100 million people worldwide (and that was a couple years ago) across over 30 languages. Here's the updated Zeitgeist Sourcebook (2010) for Part 1 of the original documentary.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 am 
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I say bullshit on this one. Seems like an opportunity to just throw Zeitgeist under the bus. I'm sure they will probably also say he was into Michael Moore, Alex Jones, and David Icke, etc., etc. There's enough defamation in this one to go around for everybody! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:14 am 
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That was my first thought too - that it was an odd attempt to "throw Zeitgeist under the bus."

The above news article circulates to a large number of readers much unfortunate publicity for Zeitgeist because of its attachment to the tragic incident in AZ. Mark David Chapman, murdered John Lennon of the Beatles, liked Catcher In The Rye.

* Adding a bit more info to #1 above; Actually, the threats have come from the opposite direction at us and we have discussed a few of them throughout this forum. The malicious attacks come from both theists and atheists.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:21 am 
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There will always be people in this world who are evil or insane or both, just because Loughner happened to have an interest in ZG does not mean that the interest motivated him in any way to commit these horrendous crimes. There is no plausible link or connection to violence, in fact the opposite applies.

Manson said he was God, did anyone blame religion? I don't think so.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Well already specific people such as those on Conspiracy Science are using this to try and possibly get the government to sabotage local Zeitgeist Movement events in an attempt to link it even further with the movement. I find this to be extremely disturbing train of thought it seems to indicate that these people won't be happy until every member is possibly labeled as a terrorist and is possibly water-boarded and the movement dismantled.
Code:
http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/zeitgest-at-my-library-oh-hell-no

http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/exclusive-zeitgeist-movement-inspired-jared-loughner-says-friend

http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/public-statement-from-peter-re-zeitgeist-associations

http://conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/falsely-accused

I guess they aren't happy with just putting things in their forums, it looks like they actually want to dampen the movement's progress any way they can.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Let the insanity begin:

Zeitgeist: Watch the Conspiracy Movie That Had a ‘Profound Impact’ on Tucson Mass Murder Suspect Jared Loughner

And they know this how, exactly? Because Loughner's friend who was the one who claimed Zeitgeist was one of Loughner's favorite films hadn't seen him in two years. Leave it up to the crazies to add to that whatever they wish. It's convenient for the crazy right extremists like Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Saun Hannity and the rest at the Fox news channel to blame Zeitgeist because they need a scapegoat to blame so they don't have to take any responsibility for the violent rhetoric they've been planting for 2 years now, since Obama won the Presidency. The loony religious right would love nothing more than create a new modern day Inquisition and take us back to the good ol' days when Christian theocracy ruled supreme. A time we today all refer to as the DARK AGES.

They need to be called out immediately as they are in no position to point fingers as Christianity is responsible for the deaths of some 250 million people since the creation of Christianity.

Islam is even worse at 270 million in it's mere 1,400 year history:
Quote:
The 270 Million Killed in the Name of Islam

Here is a link to the article that highlights the figure of 270 million murdered by Muslims over the past 1,400 years. It's from Bill Warner's site - he is the originator of this figure, as found on other sites. I've excerpted the most relevant parts here. For the full discussion, see the link.

Tears of Jihad

Quote:
These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad.

120 million Africans
60 million Christians
80 million Hindus
10 million Buddhists

This list doesn't include the thousands of others such as Jews and the many thousands of others since it was compiled in 1994. Nor does it include the many thousands of Muslims slaughtered by other Muslims, apparently.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=589&start=555

Infidelophobia

Islam and Christianity have similar 'End times' scenarios where eventually 2/3rds of the worlds population will be destroyed (non-believers of course - no blatant discrimination going on there). So, just between these two religion we have over half a BILLION deaths with many more to come in their 'end times' scenarios.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Quote:
PUBLIC STATEMENT FROM THE CREATOR OF THE “ZEITGEIST FILM SERIES”, PETER JOSEPH:

RE: THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA ASSOCIATION CREATED BETWEEN “ZEITGEIST” AND THE TUCSON MURDERS.

It has come to my attention that various mainstream news organizations are beginning to run an association between my 2007 performance piece/film, “Zeitgeist: The Movie” and the tragic murders conducted by an extremely troubled young man in Tucson, Arizona. They are also slowly beginning to bleed the obvious line between my 2007 documentary work, my film series as a whole and The Zeitgeist Movement, which I am the founder. Frankly, I find this isolating, growing association tremendously irresponsible on the part of ABC, NBC and their affiliates - further reflecting the disingenuous nature of the America Media Establishment today.

It appears to have begun with a comment on NBC news referencing my film along with other “influential” films as well, such as Richard Kelly's film “Donnie Darko” and then spreading to ABC News where it singled out "Zeitgeist: The Movie" and the Series itself, stating:

“Osler pointed to an online documentary series called "Zeitgeist" as a possible influence on the man. The series rails on currency-based economics.

"I really think that this 'Zeitgeist' documentary had a profound impact on Jared's mindset and how he viewed that world that he lives in," Osler said.”

Let it be known that the former friend of Loughner, Zack Osler, who states the association on camera, is noted to have been out of contact with Loughner for two years. Yes, two years. So, the lack of integrity of ABC's reporting - to amplify a comment by a person who had not even been in contact with Loughner for such a long period of time - is truly poor, manipulative journalism. ABC goes on to imply that my film work was somehow an inspiration in real time even though, again, this testimony is based on interactions occurring two years prior. Needless to say, the disposition for such a horrible act of violence by anyone simply cannot be accurately assumed by behavior from 2 years prior, regardless.

Tucson Shooting

When we reflect on the history of seemingly random violence or other forms of highly offensive, irrational, aberrant behavior, we see a common pattern of reaction from the public and media in their attempt to explain such extreme acts. Rather than deeply examining the Bio-Psycho-Social nature of human social development and the vast spectrum of influences that create and morph each of us in unique and sometimes detrimental ways, they take the easy way out. The first thing they do is simply ignore all modern scientific, social understandings of what generates human motivation in both positive and negative regard, for to do so can only call into question the social system itself and hence the “zeitgeist” (meaning: spirit/intellectual climate of the time/culture) at large.

Generally speaking, it is historically accurate to say that the Mainstream Media simply isn't in the business of challenging the Status Quo. The limits of debate are firmly set. Virtually all ideas, persons or groups who have succeeded in changing the world for the better, later to be hailed as heros in the public mind, started out being condemned by those in the Mainstream Media who latch on to the dominant world view of the time. Even Martin Luther King Jr., a peaceful, loving, wonder of a man who contributed more to our social progress than likely any humanitarian in the US history, was followed by the CIA and publicly humiliated as a “Communist” which he even had to defend in front of a Congressional Committee. In fact, you can rest assured that if King were alive in the current paradigm today and seeking an equal form of justice - he would be given the name: “Terrorist”.

So, again, rather than taking the scientific view, the Mainstream Media often seeks out or implies one point of blame and runs with it. After all, it is much easier, presentable and more simplistic for the public to think that the troubling reality of seemingly random acts of mass murder is the result of a “singular influence” and hence the logic goes that if that one influence is removed, then the world will be back in balance. This gives the public a false resolve and position of focus in an otherwise ambiguous, complex world of social and biological influences. And as far as the scapegoat itself, very often any group, media or dataset that is counter-culture or even hints at wishing to challenge the status quo, is a magnet for such blame.

For example, musical groups of a counter-culture nature have been a favorite scapegoat for acts of murder/violence historically. In 1990, the rock band Judas Priest was actually taken to court for their “role” in the self-inflicted gunshot wounds in 1985 of 20-year old James Vance and 18-year old Raymond Belknap in Reno, Nevada. In 2008, the band Slipknot was publicly tied/blamed to a high-school murder in South Africa. Even the Beatles song “Helter-skelter” was associated to the murders incited by Charles Manson. It goes on and on... and, frankly, it's simply pathetic - avoiding the true nature of the problem - which is the Socio-Economic Environment itself.

Make no mistake: The Social System is to blame for the rampage of Jared Loughner – not some famous online documentary which is known as the most viewed documentary of all time in internet history. Are the other 200 million people who have seen the film also preparing for murder sprees? I think not.

In my new film: "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward", I feature a prominent Harvard Criminal Psychologist by the name of Dr. James Gilligan who headed the Centre for the Study of Violence at Harvard Medical School for many years. In his life work of personally engaging the most dangerous, violent offenders the US system produces, he found some basic trends. The most common is the social issue of “shame”. Our socio-economic system inherently breeds social division and there is a natural demeaning of others generated as a result. It is a scientific fact that mass murderers and those who many just dismiss as “evil” today, are the product of years of being shamed, humiliated and demeaned. Their acts of violence is a reaction from these highly oppressive feelings and the real resolve to such acts can only come from removing the real source of such emotional hurt. You will notice that most other countries don't come close to the level of violence we see in the United States. The US is the capital of violence with 30-300 times more acts of violence than any other country. We have produced more serial killers in America than all other countries combined. Why? You will notice the Mainstream never asks this question.

If anyone would like to understand why more and more people in the modern world end up like Jared Loughner and why these patterns are only going to get worse as time goes on in this system, I suggest the book “Violence” by Harvard Criminal Psychologist Dr. Gilligan.

In conclusion, let it be stated that the Zeitgeist Film Series is about critical thought regarding various social issues which challenge many erroneous notions held as fact in the modern culture. It also explicitly promotes non-violence, human unity and prosperous human development based on truth and science.

Anyone who wishes to really understand the works can view them for free online at zeitgeistmovie.com and my new film, which will detail how a new, humane social system can work, will be in 315 theaters in 60 countries and 30 languages starting Jan 15th 2011. http://www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com

I am also in contact with my legal team and considering legal action against ABC.

-Peter Joseph

Public Statement by Peter Joseph

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:29 pm 
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I bet a lot of People who haven't seen ZG went to have a look at it now that the news started broadcasting it all around. And perhaps all of this hype will drum up an even larger audience for the new Moving Forward edition. It would be funny if PJ sues the shit out of them as well. More money for the movement on ABC's dime at that.

Shit, I'm surprised they haven't thrown in a K2 herbal incence proganda shot while they've been at it. 'Yeah, he was smoking that legal K2 and watching ZG. Better out law all of it...' The bullshit never ceases to amaze me. Hell, PJ could make another movie about how the government set up the entire shooting just in order to blame ZG for it because ZG has reached that much of an intimidating presence now... How far fetched is that? Stranger things have happened.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:23 am 
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I found an interesting thing out about Jared, apparently according to some news channels, he was a practicing Satanist. This could be the cause of his insanity. If you read the book about Satanic Ritual Abuse by Colin A. Ross, you will see that Fundamentalist Christianity is the actual cause of the SRA because there is no "Satan" without Fundamentalist Christianity...it is a dualistic ideology which causes fragmentation of the psyche which in turn causes dissociative disorder aka demon possessions.
You can read about it Link


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:27 am 
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I had a feeling of such a thing really, by the way can you give us the link to the report?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Here is the link to the news article! Sorry I forgot that.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... _yard.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:38 pm 
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So, I notice that tonight "60 Minutes" is doing the first segment on Jared Loughner's friends and classmates. I am curious to see if Zeitgeist will come up. If it does, then, we should demand that "60 Minutes" also give time to Peter Joseph and Acharya S in a future segment.

"60 Minutes" is on CBS and starts at 7 PM. I am a "60 Minutes" junkie. I enjoy their style of news journalism as opposed to the 24/7 TV news where they discuss a topic for 2 minutes and just when it begins to get interesting they say, "Well, we're out of time."

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
So, I notice that tonight "60 Minutes" is doing the first segment on Jared Loughner's friends and classmates. I am curious to see if Zeitgeist will come up. If it does, then, we should demand that "60 Minutes" also give time to Peter Joseph and Acharya S in a future segment.

"60 Minutes" is on CBS and starts at 7 PM. I am a "60 Minutes" junkie. I enjoy their style of news journalism as opposed to the 24/7 TV news where they discuss a topic for 2 minutes and just when it begins to get interesting they say, "Well, we're out of time."


Well see about posting it and I'll watch it when I can. I'll be at the priemere at that time, let you all know how it goes. Btw, VTV is doing a show about it along with a review of ZMF.

Here is the link for it: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/v-radio/20 ... ng-forward


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:46 am 
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There was no mention of Zeitgeist on "60 Minutes" last night. They did mention a couple others though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:09 am 
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Here's the latest attack on the Zeitgeist movies. They're obviously trying to use ZG as a scapegoat - that way they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves.

Quote:
Washington Examiner: Tucson shooter obsessed with bizarre Internet movie (1/17/11)

"By all accounts, an Internet documentary named "Zeitgeist" was the favorite movie of accused Tucson shooter Jared Loughner. Created in 2007 by New York-based conspiracy merchant Peter Joseph, "Zeitgeist" is a two-hour mash-up of old and new conspiracy theories involving religion, the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, and the Federal Reserve system. Its message is simple: "We've been lied to. We've been lied to by every institution."

"He wanted to watch it all the time," a teenage friend of Loughner's told the Arizona Republic. "It was cool at first. But then it got weird. It was all he wanted to do."

"Zeitgeist" has three parts. The first tells us that Christianity is a myth, and that religion in general conditions us to believe other myths. The second tells us that the most powerful of those other myths is 9/11 -- we call it an act of terrorism when it fact it was an inside job perpetrated by the U.S. government. And the third part tells us the real powers behind 9/11 and the other myths are central bankers. They're making the myths for money, while we're just being duped.

"Christianity, along with all other related theologies, is an historical fraud," the narration begins. "Zeitgeist" posits a sort of Zodiac-based foundation for all faiths and gives us insights like, "Jesus' solar Piscean personification will end when the sun enters the Age of Aquarius."

But religion is much more than astrological musings. "It empowers the political establishment who have been using the myth to manipulate and control societies," the movie claims. "The religious myth ... serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish." And anyone who questions the myth will pay a price. "The keepers of the faith won't enter into debate with [critics]," the narrator says. "They ignore them or denounce them as blasphemers."

At that moment, "Zeitgeist" turns to -- of all people -- Washington pundit Tucker Carlson to pivot from the Christianity myth to the Sept. 11 myth. Interviewing a 9/11 skeptic on MSNBC in 2006, Carlson said, "It is wrong, blasphemous, and sinful for you to suggest, imply, or help other people come to the conclusion that the U.S. government killed 3,000 of its own citizens."

To the makers of "Zeitgeist," that is an "Aha!" moment: a skeptic being literally denounced as a blasphemer. From there, the movie recounts standard 9/11 truther stuff, like claiming plane crashes alone could not have brought down the World Trade Center towers.

But why was it done? "Sept. 11 was the jump-start for a hegemonic agenda enabling the possibility of constant global warfare," the movie asserts. It was a pretext, staged "to launch two unprovoked illegal wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"However, 9/11 was a pretext for another war as well," it continues. "The war against you. The Patriot Act, homeland security, the military tribunals act and other legislation are all completely designed to destroy your civil liberties and protect those in power." From there, "Zeitgeist" cuts from a video clip of Adolf Hitler to -- surely you saw this coming -- George W. Bush.

But even Hitler and Bush aren't the real villains of "Zeitgeist." The third and final part of the documentary is titled "Don't Mind the Men Behind the Curtain." Those men are central bankers and currency manipulators, the "invisible government" that controls our lives.

In the early 20th century, according to "Zeitgeist," "ruthless banking interests" held a secret meeting to create the Federal Reserve system. The goal, beyond enriching themselves, was to debase American currency and reduce the United States to the "slavery" of ever-increasing debt. Anyone who has even sampled kooky speculations about the Fed will recognize this as very old stuff, repackaged with amateurish digital effects.

In the end, "Zeitgeist" tells us we must break free of the slavery. "If the people ever realize the truth," the narrator says, "the entire manufactured zeitgeist ... will collapse like a house of cards."

Is all this left or right? Parts of "Zeitgeist," complete with depictions of Fox News as a government propaganda organ, resemble some paranoid, far-left, anti-Bush tracts of 2004-2007. Other parts resemble far-right paranoia from many years ago. But the more important question is what effect the picture had on Jared Loughner.

At a time when Loughner was increasingly unable to control his own mind, he apparently welcomed "Zeitgeist's" message that there were sinister forces out there trying to control it for him. The meaning of "Zeitgeist's" role in the Tucson violence is not that Loughner's motive was political. It's that the movie's insane incoherence proved to be an awful stimulant for one dangerously incoherent mind."

Byron York, The Examiner's chief political correspondent, can be contacted at byork@washingtonexaminer.com

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