Freethought Nation

Hey guy's. I am currently doing some research on various documentaries that claim to have "refuted" Zeitgeist Part 1 so I may be able to write up a critique on each of them. In regards I might some help so I was wondering if anyone might be willing to point me in the right direction in case if I can't find much.

The film I am working on in researching is Zeitgeist: Spirit of the Age Refuted:

I do realize that this is an old version but because it is, the newer one actually draws at least a third of its information from the previous video. Thanks everyone, appreciate any help you guys might be able to give.

The anti-Zeitgeist and anti-Acharya videos, blogs, etc are addressed here in several different threads, you'll just have to look around.

Keep in mind that there are way more of them, i.e. Christians (& even a few loony atheists), than there are of us, so it's not easy keeping up with all the trash out there. It's very time consuming trying to address all the nonsense. We can always use more help just trying to set the record straight, if nothing else. So, I'm here and happy to help out however I can. I'd be more motivated to address more of these issues with more help from others too. So, bring it on!

Zeitgeist Refuted was written & directed by Elliott Nesch.

OLD VERSION at 54:00 ish, loves to claim:

It's not always just what devotees say that is wrong it can often be what they don't say. For example, not a single one of the "42 authors" ever met Jesus while he was alive. The four canonical Gospel writers were all anonymous until the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were added as authors late in the 2nd century. There is no contemporary eyewitness testimony for Jesus at all whatsoever. Nobody ever wrote about Jesus during his lifetime and the canonical gospels didn't exist as we have them today until around 180CE - that is what the literary and historical records show i.e. evidence that actually exists.

Even top Christian NT scholars disagree that there's credible evidence for the historical existence of Jesus:







The one constant theme is, there's no credible evidence for a historical Jesus, same as there was no valid evidence amongst the 1st Xians either. The earliest Christians never had any evidence they could point to in order to demonstrate Jesus actually existed. If Jesus was really a carpenter, there was no work done by his hands. There were no paintings, rock carvings, writings - nothing by him at all. And, there's no evidence that the earliest Christians ever tried to claim anything by him ever existed. And what about Jesus' own family? Isn't it odd that nobody ever went to them for an interview of any kind? Where's Jesus' supposed family today? If they were real people i.e. Joseph, Mary and Jesus' siblings etc. don't you think Constantine and his mother would've sought them out? NOPE, nothing, notta, zippo, ZERO! There's never been anything beyond 'anecdotal evidence' or evidence based on hearsay.

So, it appears that in 2,000 years nothing has changed. Which is significant considering all the research, investigations and all the money / funding spent on them. So, it's really bad form for NT & biblical scholars to rigidly adhere to the a priori assumption that Jesus must have existed when there's no valid evidence substantiating that claim.

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

ZG Refuted at 1:15:19

2 John 7 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

So, right here we have evidence that there were people who did not believe Jesus existed from the very beginning - while Christian apologists also try to claim that nobody ever questioned Jesus' existence until the 18th/19th century - they'll have to work that silly argument out between themselves.

They're omitting, of course, the fact that anyone who spoke out against the church doctrines were usually murdered. So, what they do is just make the claim that whoever doesn't believe must be a deceiver and an antichrist. Which is nothing more than blatant bias, prejudice and discrimination against non-believers. And, they are still doing it to this very day. It's a circular argument anyway.

Right after that at 1:15:34 ZGR says:

"The scripture also warns us about the false doctrine of the last days, especially that of the Roman Catholic church that has embraced pagan sun worship."

So now, even the Catholics are on their shit list - what about the other 38,000 Christian denominations worldwide? The Catholics certainly had no hesitation in their attempt to wipe out Paganism during the crusades and Inquisitions. These were one of the few issues Catholics and Protestants agreed upon.

Pagan Destruction Chronology (314-870 C.E.)

Then they go into 1:16:15 "What about the Crusades and the Inquisitions?"

At 1:16:24 ZGR says:

"As for the Crusades and Inquisition led by the Roman Catholic church, these people neither loved Jesus nor did they obey his teachings."

Matt 12:30 "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad." (Jesus speaking)

And we have more blatant bias, prejudice and discrimination against non-believers.

From there, Zeitgeist Refuted spends the last 20 or more minutes proselytizing.

From a 20 year former Preacher Why Jesus?:

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Hey guy's I found the document that they were touting that they show, that supposedly states to utilizes Bible passages to make people docile and compliant with government. All the places I have seen I have been able to trace it to an artcle on Alex Jones infowars:

Here is the document shown in the video:

Alex Jones is another Christian fundy. Which is really odd since he considers himself a conspiracy theorist - he rigidly adheres to one of the biggest conspiracies of them all - Christianity.

Alex puts out a lot of fear and paranoia:

Alex is always around to tell everybody who will listen that the US Gov't can not be trusted, that they're trying to get rid of Christianity and everytime it happens it's always a commy plot or something from Nazi Germany - always pointing to a scapegoat. I think he's responsible for a constant stream of fear & paranoia, and fundamentalism. Notice he hardly criticizes Christianity or the bible and certainly not Jesus.

Page 3 of your document says it all to me:

Pastoral crisis intervention:

A. Trauma

B. Crisis

C. Disaster

D. Stress

The document details how religion can be used to exploit the most vulnerable. Now you know why religious organizations are always there to "help" during A, B,C & D.

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

From what I have ascertained from the document it actually does not involve any kind of exploitation; it is merely telling pastors to simply help people in times of stress and need for spiritual healing. It really doesn't have anything to do with mind control or manipulation. And I have found out that this document does not at all originate from the FBI, NSA etc... but from a psychological study about the achievements done through spiritual therapy which seemed quite successful. The passages related are mostly to convey comfort and healing to people who need it; and are not at all in anyway shape or form regarded to manipulate people as the film Zeitgeist: Spirit of the Age Refuted clearly suggested. This is just cherry picking portions of the document and blowing shit way out of proportion.

I will say however that on page 3 as you have pointed out can be misused for nefarious means. But the original meaning is to convey spiritual healing, not mass mind control.

As far as Alex Jones goes, he is actually correct about a lot of things concerning government, corporate and banking corruption; and he is wrong about almost everything else.

It certain does manipulate just by design. There's no way it can't but that doesn't mean it's malevolent intent.

It's common knowledge that people, regions and even nations tend to lean towards religion in times of A. Trauma B. Crisis C. Disaster D. Stress. That's what happened after 9-11. History shows that when a nation is slipping away from religion a natural disaster or terrorist attacks snaps them back into religion again. This is old news and it can be utilized as a tool because it works like a charm.

Purposely sending out Pastors only compounds that issue. Remember, even Alex Jones said it was "a literal Soviet model" and a "Nazi-like spectacle."


Yes, of course he uses nuggets of truth but it doesn't make his views about gov't correct at all. What Alex Jones does is absolutely not journalism. It's selling a view point full of fear paranoia and anti-US gov't.


You're probably right on that. What was the time on that? If you want to address specific things from ZF Refuted then always include the time.

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

The time begins at 5:05-6:57 where it begins to talk about the so called FEMA directives. It then shows the actual document pages but apparently does not deal with any of passages nor does it show Romans 13 on there; because Romans 13 is not on the document. Within it; it goes on to talk about Romans 13 being misused by Hitler and others. To "prove" this statement the film offers up a clip from John Piper:



This statement is very interesting because apparently he is making shit up:



Here is the portion of the Introduction it's referring:



To be more or less clear what they is being referred to here allow me to give you the exact verses for which they are referring to:



So to put it quite bluntly, John Piper is apparently pulling shit out of his ass and making things up.

Hey guy's I thought I would give an update on what I have found; in regards to the film at 03:07-03:33 it refers to the idea that Jesus refers to Satan as the ruler of this world. Besides the fact that this claim if true, is very contradictory to the bible itself. What I found is that it references a series of Sermons made by pastors at Church of the Great God.

Here is an article that presents various excerpts from the sermons the film refers to: http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseact ... -world.htm

Also, does the verse say the ruler of this world, or actually the ruler of this "age" / Aeon in the original langauge?

Regardless of whether it says world or age, we're in the third of the four lowest ages (1/3) of the total Great Year cycle, which are considered to be ruled by darkness / deception. The devil, being deception and dishonesty personified, is the ruler of earth during the lower dark ages of precession when things are at the very darkest. The world is being dominated by the darker aspects of the human mind as it approaches the Iron Age / Kali Yuga and for a while longer beyond that into the ascending Bronze Age / Dwapara Yuga.

That's important to note when dealing with the Bible talking about the devil being given the earth to rule over and things of that nature... It's largely allegorical and deals in terms of which period of the Great Year the Bible's drama is taking place in (Taurus, Aries, Pisces, and foreshadows Aquarius). When the Bible ends or leaves off, well that's coincidentally when the earth is finally moving out of the 1/3 lowest swing of the Great Year cycle and therefore moving out of the four darkest "world ages" which are ruled by darkness and deception as per mythology, hence the personified devil character is no longer the ruler of the world any more beyond that point.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

Hello all. I'm StrangerThanFiction. First time poster. Long time supporter of Zeitgeist and Acharya S's work. A little about me: After watching the film Zeitgeist, I couldn't believe there was so much about religion history I never knew. I then saw what critics were saying about Zeitgeist and wasn't sure what to believe. But, after reading "Christ in Egypt" I realized that so called "debunkers" were clearly misrepresenting Acharya's research. So, using Acharya's work and the new "Zeitgeist sourcebook," I made a response to the film "Zeitgeist Refuted," which numerous debunkers seemed to be referencing. It only addresses the first section of the film, but I hope to make more response vids in the future. It's nothing special admittedly, just white text on a black background. But anyway, please share and enjoy!

http://vimeo.com/18486623

Also, if anyone has any good links that can help me with future refutation videos, it would be very appreciated. Thank you.

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"Zeitgeist Refuted" Debunked and Exposed

I am actually currently in the process of doing research for a long drawn out project of mine which examines both the claims of Zeitgeist, the critics out there along with a thorough examination of the film itself. I expect this project to be at around 4k pages long at the least and 6k pages at the most (it might even be longer or it might be shorter, who knows). I will be announcing when I will be taking people here on both my YT channel and on various forums to help with examination of people and their critics. I Hope to draw in academics that are in the relevant fields of study and people who are involved with kind of work to put forth articles and to contribute it. It's a non-profit, volunteer project... no money will be given and the project itself will be released on a completely free medium for everyone to view (perhaps on Acharya's website if I can convince her to host it).

Great work!!! You cited everything nicely and spanked him with CiE.

You should probably take a look at this thread we have about KingDavid8.com, another idiot with a $1,000 reward challenge / hoax:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3206&start=0

It would also be helpful to check out the GodAlmighty's video series (The evolution from Osiris to Jesus) discussed in the thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3548&start=0

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

Thanks! Again, I know it's not spectacular graphics-wise, but it was very obvious to me that impressive video graphics weren't neccessary to refute the film's very weak arguments. I'll look through those threads for sure. I've seen some of GodAlmighty's work and I reference him a few times in the vid. I'm not sure when I'll have other videos out. I could have refuted the whole film at once I guess, but then it would have been like 5 or 6 hours long. Anyway, I hope the film is helpful. Peace!

P.S. I made this short video as a video response to the film on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvvmqpSUtQo
Of course, I have to wait for it to be approved first. I wonder if he'll allow it?

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"Zeitgeist Refuted" Debunked and Exposed

Hi guys!

I wanted to thank you for all your good work in spreading the word, so to speak. I really appreciate you doing all that - having people make these videos and otherwise revealing these fascinating facts is one of the main reasons I write the books, so others will be thus inspired.

You're doing a great job. A few typos here and there, but overall, I'm really impressed by your diligence and digging. GodAlmighty is especially good at finding sources, and, STF, I watched most of your video (and sent it around a bit) yesterday - so wonderful to have these new resources to show that these "refutations" are full of errors and omissions.

In any event, as a token of my appreciation - and with an eye to inspire more such wonderful creations - I have uploaded my latest project, which is not quite ready for primetime release but which is finished otherwise. This article, "Was the Persian Goddess Anahita the Pre-Christian Virgin Mother of Mithra?," is part of a longer chapter for my upcoming Mithra book, which won't be released for a while, but I wanted others to have access to this fascinating and important information. As we can see, the shallow apologists are WRONG again.

"Was the Persian Goddess Anahita the Pre-Christian Virgin Mother of Mithra?"
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/anahita.pdf

Right now, I'm only circulating this article to this forum, so enjoy!

And thanks again. I look forward to more of your projects.

P.S. STF, can you upload your video onto Youtube? If so, I will circulate it more widely. I've already promoted GA's YT account.

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Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it: