It is currently Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:06 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:41 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Mormonism (LDS) Joseph Smith & the Gold Plates

Quote:
THE 1826 COURT TRIAL

"For years Mormon scholars have criticized the account of an 1826 court trial held in Brainbridge, New York where Joseph Smith was arrested, tried, and found guilty of using a magical stone for the purpose of finding hidden treasure buried in the earth. This account was published in Frazer's Magazine in 1873. The following information is quoted from that publication under the heading "STATE OF NEW YORK v. JOSEPH SMITH":

Quote:
"Prisoner [Joseph Smith] brought before Court March 20, 1826. Prisoner examined: says that he .... had a certain stone which he had occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were a distance under ground .... he had occasionally been in the habit of looking through this stone to find lost property for three years, but of !ate had pretty much given it up on account of its injuring his health, especially his eyes making them sore;...

"And therefore the Court find[s] the Defendant guilty. Costs: Warrant, 19c. Complaint upon oath, 25½c. Seven witnesses, 87½ c. Recognisances, 25c. Mittimus, 19c. Recognisances of witnesses, 75c. Suboena, 18c -$2.68." (Frazer's Magazine, February, 1873, pp. 229-30)

Until 1971 LDS scholars believed that there was no proof to prove the account given in Frazer's Magazine. They were so sure of the innocence of Joseph Smith that some Mormon apologists admitted if the court record could be found it would prove Joseph Smith a fraud. Dr. Francis W. Kirkham stated:

Quote:
"If any evidence had been in existence that Joseph Smith had used a seer stone for fraud and deception, and especially had he made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the Book of Mormon was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for him to have organized the restored Church." (A New Witness For Christ In America, vol. 1, pp. 385-87)

Then in 1971 in the basement of the County Jail in Norwich, New York, Wesley Walters discovered the original 1826 Court record which gives the costs involved in the trial and proves the account given in Frazer's Magazine. Not only is this one of the most devastating pieces of evidence against the divine mission of Joseph Smith, but this discovery proves Smith was heavily involved in the occult during the time he was supposed to be preparing himself for receiving the "gold plates"!

Below is a photograph of the newly discovered document which proves that Joseph Smith was arrested, tried, and found guilty as a "glass looker" in 1826. To the left is a typed transcript of the portion of the document that deals with Joseph Smith. Notice that when the letter "S" was repeated it appears as a "P" (see the word "Assault" in items 1, 4, 7, and 9)."

"In the book, Palmer suggests that church founder Joseph Smith revised church scripture to his advantage. The book says Smith didn't actually translate the Book of Mormon "by the gift and power of God" from an ancient set of golden plates, as the church's followers believe. Palmer suggested Smith wrote it himself, leaning heavily on the King James Bible and personal experiences."
- Here

Journal of History By Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Joseph Smith and the beginnings of Mormonism By Richard L. Bushman

History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

http://www.mormontruth.org

http://www.exmormon.org

http://www.allaboutmormons.com/ENG_index.php

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

Quote:
"The Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight..."

- Joseph Smith, (History of the Church)

According to Joseph Smith, Jesus tells him that all other creeds are an abomination - I guess this neutralizes Islam utterly. Somebody needs to tell all the Muslims worldwide that there religion is now null, void & obsolete. It is no longer needed.

_________________
Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube
The Mythicist Position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:55 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Joseph Lied: The truth about Joseph Smith pt. 1


_________________
Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube
The Mythicist Position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:40 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 2301
Location: Everywhere
There's a lot of evident bull shit out there in terms of religious sects, but Mormonism seems to take the cake.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:55 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:45 am
Posts: 559
^They can duke it out with Scientology for the title.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:50 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 2301
Location: Everywhere
I do enjoy learning about the various foundational tomfoolery though. :lol:

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
I suppose it's time to 'resurrect' this thread since Mitt Romney is most likely going to be the GOP Presidential candidate. I'll get us started with a few laughs:

Bill Maher exposes Mormon religion


Religion (and Mormonism) is a Con


Bill Maher: Liberty University Is Not A Real School

_________________
Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube
The Mythicist Position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:27 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:45 am
Posts: 559
Liberty's not a mormon school, is it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:15 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
^ That's right, but Bill Maher brings up Romney and Mormonism and it's funny so, I threw it for good measure.

_________________
Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube
The Mythicist Position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:20 pm 
Offline
Thor

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 38
Yeah, Maher is not only funny, but also definitely right! That religion’s doctrine and belief system is quite messed up! The sad part of it is that there are a lot of good people in it. This is one of the main reasons why I’m in a quest to gather as many facts as I can on the origins of Christianity, and its mythical central figure of Jesus.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:35 pm 
Offline
Hercules

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:46 pm
Posts: 79
One of my favorite areas of study (as a resident of Hancock County Illinois, in which Nauvoo, the city founded by Joseph Smith, is located). How many know that Joseph Smith was running for President of the United States when he was killed in 1844?

This is such a rich field of study, especially since it is local history, and many surnames involved in the making of that history still survive in this county.

They say that the residents of Hancock County were as outraged over the practice of polygamy in Nauvoo as we are today when we see Warren Jeffs arrested for "marrying" little 12 year old girls.

But if someone tricked Joseph Smith into believing he had found golden plates, was he really then lying? Also, each time I read of an account of Smith's use of a seer or peep stone, I do not see any description of how scrying and naturally occurring phosphenes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphene) do seem to produce visions; not to mention visions that appeared in the sky that many attested to - scrying with clouds? Is this the influence of hermeticism through the Masonic Lodge that the Smith's brought to Nauvoo?

Perhaps that is why he seemed so believable, because to his way of thinking, he wasn't really lying?

The residents of Hancock county went to war to drive the Mormons out of Illinois, as they previously had been run out of Ohio and Missouri. I often wonder if such a movement arose today, wouldn't first amendment rights be viewed a little differently than they were then? I wonder if the practice of polygamy won't be the next thing to be legalized, after gay rights are established.

I highly recommend an out of print book Nightfall at Nauvoo by Samuel W. Taylor, "who was a grandson of John Taylor (the third president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and one of thirty-six children of John Whittaker Taylor (an apostle of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints)."
http://www.motleyvision.org/2006/mormon-lit-who-was-samuel-w-taylor/

Though decidedly "anti-Mormon", Samuel W. Taylor never left the church, and this book should be on every Mormon's reading list for the description of the locale, climate, and political intrigue of Old Nauvoo. Then compare the experience of the Mormons to every other religion you've ever heard of, down to the fact that we do not even have an uncontested photo of Joseph Smith!

I've been spreading the word on this book since the 1990s and everyone who has read it agrees, its one of the best works on Mormonism they've ever read, and we've read quite a few!

It is amazing how a modern prophet's experience echos that of Jesus Christ! There is much to be learned from the phemomena known as Mormonism.

_________________
I am the Wind that blows over the Sea;
I am the Wave of the Deep;
I am the Bull of the Seven Battles;
I am the Eagle upon the rock;
I am a Tear of the Sun;


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:39 pm 
Offline
Hercules

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:46 pm
Posts: 79
When I was a child, a favorite place to picnic was the state park at Nauvoo. At that time, one of the original 'sunstones' from the old Mormon temple stood in the park surrounded by a wrought iron fence that small hands could reach through to pet the stone. I was always fascinated by that thing...whether because of the anthropomorphic mystical face on the sun or as an omen of my future interests in mythology/religion, I don't know. I am not even 100% sure that it was always fenced very early on, or left plum naked, but today it is in a climate controlled casing:

Quote:
A decorative cap to one of the temple's pilasters is displayed inside a covered cage to protect it from direct sunlight and rain. Called a "sunstone" because it depicts a sun with a radiant face, the two-piece, 2.5-ton limestone carving was one of 30 such stones that adorned the columns. The pilasters also featured the same number of "moonstones" and "starstones," and some of these are still in existence. However, the sunstone displayed at Nauvoo is one of only two known to exist. It is owned by the State, on loan to the LDS Church, and displayed at the original temple site. The other was acquired by the Smithsonian Institution in 1989.

http://www.dnr.state.il.us/lands/Landmgt/parks/r4/nauvoo.htm

Do check out the sunstone that is shown in the wikipedia article:

Quote:
The Nauvoo Temple was designed in the Greek Revival style by Mormon architect William Weeks, under the direction of Smith. Weeks' design made use of distinctively Latter-day Saint motifs, including Sunstones, Moonstones, and Starstones. It is often mistakenly thought that these stones represent the Three Degrees of Glory in the Mormon conception of the afterlife, but the stones appear in the wrong order. Instead, Wandle Mace, foreman for the framework of the Nauvoo Temple, has explained that the design of the temple was meant to be “a representation of the Church, the Bride, the Lamb’s wife” (Wandle Mace, Autobiography 207 (BYU Special Collections)). In this regard Mace references John’s statement in Revelation 12:1 concerning the “woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” This explains why the Starstones are at the top of the temple (“crown of twelve stars”), the Sunstones in the middle (“clothed with the sun”) and the Moonstones at the bottom (“moon under her feet”).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Temple

For more on the celestial symbolism of the Nauvoo Temple which utilized the inverted star symbolism consistent with Freemasonry:

http://users.marshall.edu/~brown/nauvoo/symbols.html

_________________
I am the Wind that blows over the Sea;
I am the Wave of the Deep;
I am the Bull of the Seven Battles;
I am the Eagle upon the rock;
I am a Tear of the Sun;


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:53 pm 
Offline
Thor

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 38
When I was a Mormon for almost 3 decades, I was always taught that Smith was a prophet when in reality he was a con man like the rest of the prophets of old. I myself taught it, and testified of his truthfulness often, and sometimes in front of the whole congregation in monthly testimony meetings. Additionally, I was a fervent young earth creationist; my view was that the theory of evolution was just a theory, coming from Satan, etc, etc, etc… And on top of that, I wore the magical Mormon underwear that the LDS people call “garments”. Now, after finding facts like the fabricated Book of Abraham, the equally fabricated Book of Mormon, and of course, the realization of the biggest fabrication of them all, Jesus of Nazareth, a divinity like all divinities that has no historical evidence at all added to the reality of a late 2nd century appearance in the historical record of the 4 gospels, now makes me understand the fact that that religion had a serious brainwash hold on me, and I’m lucky to have gotten out of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:33 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
I'm going to go ahead and drop Bill Maher's movie Religulous since I couldn't find just the Mormon scene I was looking for - for that scene skip to 58:22 for around 5 minutes or so. Bill will start off talking about Scientology but, it's a great set-up into Mormonism :lol: :

Religulous

_________________
Astrotheology.Net
Mythicists United
Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
2015 Astrotheology Calendar
Astrotheology Calendar Special
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube
The Mythicist Position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:48 am 
Offline
Hercules

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:46 pm
Posts: 79
I've never seen this movie. I'll have to watch the rest of it tomorrow night. Thanks Freethinkaluva!

_________________
I am the Wind that blows over the Sea;
I am the Wave of the Deep;
I am the Bull of the Seven Battles;
I am the Eagle upon the rock;
I am a Tear of the Sun;


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:50 am 
Offline
Thor

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 38
Ok, I believe this is a good exposure of the Book of Abraham bringing only the facts to the table.



And if you jump to 6:25, this video brings about the differences between the book of mormon (completely devoid of historicity), and the bible (admittedly filled with some facts like the existence of cities like Jerusalem, and civilizations like the Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, etc…) and featuring famed archeologist Gabriel Barkay among others (warning, this video does ascribe to the christian mainstream historical Jesus view, briefly mentioning it, and the last 8 minutes are ranting about the christian faith.) Also, the first 6:25 min. talk about the mormon view on god and salvation.



Hope you can pick up informative nuggets of factual truths about mormonism.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Truth Be Known | Stellar House Publishing
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Live Support