Freethought Nation

Who said I had any understanding of Kabalah? And even if I did, where did I say any different? But thanks for putting me in my place.

Besides, that's the whole point. Jesus is associated symbolically, metaphorically, allegorically with the sun. He is essentially a solar deity, a mythical personification of the sun, an avatar. No, Jesus is not the sun. Only the sun is the sun.

It is entirely fair to say that the origins of Christianity lie in ancient sun worship. I also think a great deal of insight can be gained through a study of this subject. If you are interested in what Acharya actually argues, I suggest starting here. That's the first article I read by Acharya, and while some of the details are controversial and still stir up much debate, on the whole the point is clear.

Well, if that's your position in life.

Nick

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"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

ie. you're scared of yourself. Why else would you focus on something as mindnumbingly dull as astrotheology? You have a big trip with authority, you project it onto the world and think jesus being the sun is going to take it away. Excuse me while I laugh out loud.



Astrotheology is dull as shit. Who wants some deterministic academic bollocks rammed down your throat by a bunch of demented authority trippers? Hmm, that sounds appealing. Almost as bad as orthodox Christianity.

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

Well, the Gnostic position is that you must save yourself, and also there's help.

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

James, Nick doesn't share the thoughts of the owner of this board or the mods. In all honesty, he has been insulting to all of us.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

Well, if I thought you'd actually get in there.



The sun, moon, seven planets, and twelve zodiac signs are also just labels. The sun is less so than the zodiacal signs, it's true.

Jesus as a solar deity is more embroidery. Christianity is an authentic initiatory mystery school with some of its roots in solar worship, but actually mostly nothing to do with history.



It is debatably fair to say this. Unfortunately, it misses the point entirely.



I read the first page. Please link me to when she places the mystical sayings of Jesus historically, ie in the pre-Christian era. Where is, say, the Gospel of Thomas sourced from historically?

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

It is also the Humanist position too.



Actually... No, I won't say it, but truth be told, I find it more fascinating than some topic of discussions.



Again, you are not only insulting Freethinka, but everyone on the board with you are blarney (to put it nicely). What I want to know is, if you have a problem with astrotheology and all, why did you come here? Just to insult everyone here? Who made you a psychologist and gave you the right to analyse the people here? I hate to say it, but your psychological knowledge is as bad as your theology.

As for demented authority... Have you ever heard about Catholic priests and alter boys? What about the Papacy? Jerry Fawell? James Dobson? Robinson? Oh and here's a real psycho- Jim Bakker. And what about that one who was a closet homosexual and degrading homosexuals at the same time?

Sorry, but I don't see those in academia as being demented. If anything, they have more rationality than Evangelicals.

Here's a question for you: Do you deny that Samson was symbolism for the sun? If not, what makes Jesus any different?

Do you deny Moses worshipped a volcano deity? If so, then how do you explain all that rumbling of allegory?

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

You sure can't take a hint, can you? Anyways, I vote TROLL. On the one hand this could be an interesting discussion. On the other, if I wanted to trade insults I'd go to Usenet.

Cheers.

I don't have a problem with astrotheology. I do also believe it's dull as shit. What I'm pointing out is that actually astrotheology has very little to do with Christianity. If you take the entire weight of Christian teaching you will see that very, very little of it relates to astrotheology. Christian teaching is the work of a mystery school. This means it can't be related so easily in symbol form.

What I see in Acharya's work is what I would call sleight of hand. She does not source in pre-Christian history the sayings of Jesus, the actual meat of the gospels. At least not as far as I've read. Please correct me if I'm wrong. She simply attempts to source some of the embroidery that he's picked up, the clothing of a solar messiah. This is fair enough but to then claim that Jesus' role as a solar messiah defines him is to me idiotic.

You can say I'm talking shit if you want. But if you consult with authentic Kabbalist and Gnostic sources, the true inheritors of the Christian mystery tradition, who've carried it for millenia, I believe they will tell you the same. She is practicing sleight of hand. What was suppressed at Nicaea had very very little to do with astrotheology.



I'm not standing up for the orthodoxy. I'm pointing out that two wrongs don't make a right. You can't fight bullshit with more bullshit.



Did Samson spend the majority of his time telling mystical fables, asking his disciples spiritually loaded questions, and perpetrating highly symbolic acts?

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

Then why not grab the higher ground? That's what most smart people do when faced with insults.

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

He would not have lasted even a day on the CFI board, esp with all his insults.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

I'm a human being. I don't believe in all that nicey nicey nonsense. Trying to discuss with people like yourself and ftl, you seem to skip off into your heads all the time, and insulting you is the only way I know that has a chance to bring you back. Feelings work.

BTW, James, you still haven't put anything on the table. If I said you were bleating nonsense just to avoid the possibility of having your pet theory blown away, would this make you summon up the courage to actually put something out? (Guess I've blown it now!)

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

It would seem you don't have a clue what it is all about. The crucifixion itself is the sun on the southern cross, which during the Winter Solstice looks, to the naked eye that is is standing still for three days, thus the "on the third day he rose again". This is symbology for the sun. The list of symbolism goes on and on in the gospels



You obviously have not read her books.



I do, no matter what you say about the other mystics, because even what you are saying there is not true either.



That's not an answer. That's avoiding answering the question.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

OK. What makes Jesus different is that his role as a solar deity is vastly overshadowed by all the time he spends telling mystical fables, carrying out symbolically loaded acts, and asking his disciples spiritually loaded questions.

Nick

_________________
"So the ancients considered the sun as the principle symbol of deity. No ancient person of wisdom or insight ever thought of the sun as that being, but rather the mirror of it." - Manly P. Hall

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." - Matthew 15

And this is why I consider you an arrogant boob who dishes our the crock. Even more so when you accuse us going into our heads. We are intellectuals you know and apparently you have learned nothing except what you have been told, instead of thinking for yourself. What's being a human being have to do with horse manure?

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison