Freethought Nation

Hey guy's I came across a video by YouTube user ChristianScholarship (real name Eric Brame) who made a video essentially slandering Gerald Massey.



I also decided to make a video response to him in regards to these, it's in a two part series where I generally expose the lies and quote mines that ChristianScholarship put into his video.





I would post the video as a response but he has me blocked:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4645/hasmeblocked.jpg

I hope you guys would please shed some light as to why people like this and Keith are constantly trying to slander Gerald Massey.

On a side note, doesn't this seem very much like the treatment Darwin get's by Creationists who have labeled him a racist, a woman hater and Hitler using Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

Thanks for taking on these fundamentalist Inquisition making wannabes. Unfortunately, there are many more of them than there are of us by about 1 million to 1 so it's difficult to keep up with all the trash they put out there. And even more shocking is that there are some who actually believe what these guys say without any valid evidence or omitting evidence to the contrary such as below.

These friends of Keith trash and Chris White etc only show themselves to be extremely biases and bigoted. They resemble the early days of the Inquisitions with their witch-hunts for those they disagree with and clearly hate. Keith, Chris White and their assistants are turning into a type of hate cult. They guys make videos and blogs with the purposeful intent of smearing, libeling, slandering and defaming specific individuals just because they disagree with Keith Trash's and Chris White's religious beliefs. These guys make videos with hate speech and try to get others to dislike the individuals they smear - and they take absolutely no responsibility for it. They must be held accountable. They accuse people of being a part of some NWO, Illuminati, Satanist or Luciferian group yet Keith trash and Chris White cannot provide a shred of valid evidence for it. I think they can go to jail for all this in Canada as there are laws against such hatred.

Massey is a target because his work was very strong and clear that Christianity borrowed much from other pre-Christian pagan religions, especially Egypt. He easily shows what a fraud Christianity is. So, he is a target and an easy scapegoat since he is not alive to defend himself. You'll notice it's almost always Christian fundys attacking him who know absolutely nothing about him or his work.

Here's one quote from Massey that utterly debunks their accusation of him having anything to do with theosophy - which Keith etc still don't know what theosophy IS. And, what's worse is people have shared this info about Massey with them before but they have no intention of being honest - intellectual dishonesty and a completely lack of integrity is no problem for these guys. So, they just keep repeating the same lies over & over even though they know it's not true.

For more great information about Gerald Massey read his books but also books by Barbara Walker, Acharya/Murdock and others. Acharya has written much about Massey recently in her Zeitgeist Companion Guide to part 1 and Christ in Egypt. Here's an online excerpt:

Who Is Gerald Massey?

* Use the new Google search function here at this forum for more info on Massey. I know we have posts about him in the FAQ's as well as other threads mentioning Massey too.

_________________
2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Yes I figured those to be the reason why Massey is constantly being slandered. I did provide the quote in the video but much more in regards to what Massey said to help fully understand what he actually means. I would like to say their is far more information about Gerald Massey in a single link than can be found about anyone else:

http://gerald-massey.org.uk/massey/index.htm

That link has possibly the most comprehensive biography in regards to Massey giving a general and at the same time specific detail about his life. I would actually advise people to check out the biography written by David Shaw entitled Gerald Massey: Chartist, Poet, Radical and Freethinker

http://www.lulu.com/content/5692413



Furthermore David Shaw is considered by the Upper Norwood Joint Library as the foremost authority on Massey.

To a side note I would like to take this time to say that the Upper Norwood Joint Library is facing foreclosure. The reason I mention this is because it houses The Gerald Massey Collection which contains the world's foremost library and documents regarding Gerald Massey.



So if you all can show support to the library from foreclosing anyway possible.

Hey guy's found out that ChristianScholarship removed the video he made about Gerald Massey. He obviously saw my video debunking him very, very hard and he probably felt embarrassed so he removed the video. I guess it goes to show that he is instead willing to remove video's silently if they are debunked.

Good research Mr Reason!

That pathetic video was nothing more than a vile attempt at character assassination, and poorly done at that. They do it with Acharya all the time. When you can't debunk the message, tarnish the messenger any way you can.

When they do this, they are just admitting their poverty of argument.

_________________

Yep, what Vega said!!

Well done VoR!

_________________
2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

They do this with Manly P. Hall too. He was merely given an honorary 33rd degree Mason title, he was never an initiate who rose through the ranks. His work on comparative religion and esoteric philosophy was of such a high standard that late in life the Scottish Rite decided to make him an honorary 33rd degree.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

Yes, it was very interesting that every single of his books on Masonry were all quoted far before he ever was honored the title. In reality he actually did join the Lodges in 1954... but never advanced through the Degrees and only remained an Entered Apprentice. The degree of 33rd is almost always honorary; Albert Pike and Albert G. Mackey along with Albert Churchward all had the title of 33rd degree given to them even though they only worked through to the Master Mason lodges; and they conveyed it only because of their published works. Many people don't even know this and they use them their books without even realizing that their degrees are honorary.

And these are all of the guys that the apologists and conspiracy theorists are attacking as "Luciferian". Those guys are Freemasons, Massey's a head Druid, etc.

What these guys were was so educated in comparative religion, mythology, and esoteric lore, that they were well beyond believing the story of Lucifer to Satan as literal and some actually outlined it as an astrotheological allegory about Venus shinning bright before sunrise. The little light bearer (Venus) gets blown away by the big light bearer (Sun). This turned into the fall of Lucifer story in the Bible, and they know it. I have MP Halls astrotheology series on my ipod where he specifically outlines this issue. How likely are these well educated men to get off thinking that the planet Venus, that they know is the planet Venus, is instead some invisible boogie man figure out to trick the world into unifying as one? These u-tube apologists and Christian conspiracy theorists are complete freaking idiots! These well educated men rejected literal interpretation therefore they rejected the literal existence of any such being as a Lucifer / Satan. They know not to get off thinking that there is any such being.

Does an atheist worship God by lacking a god belief? Of course not.

Does a comparative religion expert worship Lucifer by lacking a belief in his literal existence? Of course not.

You should put this general line of reason into a video and send it at these idiots and see how they respond to it. Maybe you could issue another massive shut down if it's done right.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

Well in regards of the whole Lucifer being allegorical... check out this in the Jewish Encyclopedia.



So apparently even the Jewish Encyclopedia renders Lucifer as allegorical and admits it was taken from other myths.

Is the planet Venus is an invisible boogie man cleverly plotting to take over the earth by way of a NWO?

So much for the Luciferian conspiracy theory.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

We had some apologist come here making a case for no dying and rising god-men prior to 150 CE, and he was suggesting that we all read through JZ Smith and others but the most recommended book, in his view, is "The Riddle of Resurrection". Acharya took him up on it and read the book. What she discovered was the exact opposite evidence. In fact, TRR proves the point that dying and rising gods did pre-date 150 CE which is merely obvious because what the hell else do gods that represent the solar cycle and the organic life cycles represent other than dying and rising? The case would have to be made that no solar and / or organic life cycle myth ever existed prior to 150 CE because that's what dying and rising is all about. In any case, take a look here at what Acharya posted in response to the apologist:

The Riddle of Resurrection: "Dying and Rising Gods" in the Ancient Near East

It is with tremendous amusement that I discover the text so heartily recommended by our erstwhile Christian apologist in reality is designed to dismantle the rather putrid work of J.Z. Smith in his facile and shallow dismissal of the concept of the "dying and rising gods."

Indeed, from the outset of this book, The Riddle of Resurrection, theologian Dr. Trygge N.D. Mettinger makes it clear that he disagrees with the notion of tossing away the thesis that pre-Christian gods of old died and were resurrected, and he suggests that the field has been overpowered by Christians attempting to establish the "reality" and "superiority" of their own cult.

On the front cover page of Mettinger's book, we find the synopsis of his thesis:


Thank you, Dr. Mettinger, for proving OUR point. And he continues to do so throughout this book, in which he essentially shreds J.Z. Smith's rubbishy article in Eliade's Encyclopedia. I can also provide other quotes from this fascinating and thorough analysis, in which Mettinger handily demonstrates that significant gods such as Baal clearly DIED and ROSE.

Next time, it might be a good idea to actually read the book you are recommending and that you think proves your point. However, I submit that many of those who rattle their sabers the loudest are singularly incapable of making their way through such a scholarly and challenging text, and they definitely spend far too much time arguing above their station.

Let us continue with the dismantling of this bogus premise denying the theme of the dying-and-rising gods in the pre-Christian world by the very authority previously raised by our blind-believing cultic interloper. (Who apparently dragged in either a very poor spoofer - I was thinking about MySpace's infamous "Baptist Man," except BM is FAR more literate and clever than this more recent member of the Cult of Christian Apologetics.)

Right at the beginning, after he lays out the thesis of JZ Smith and Mark S. Smith flailing at the dying-and-rising god motif, Dr. Mettinger states:


After this remark, Mettinger spends several pages outlining the debate and introducing the various players, such as the Smiths, H.P. Muller, Frazer, Baudissin, Zimmern, Langdon, Soden, J.A. Black, de Vaux, Lambrechts, Wagner, et al. Mettinger also addresses Christian apologist Yamauchi's attempts at delineating between the pre-Christian dying-and-rising gods and Jesus Christ, of whom Yamauchi is a devout and fanatic follower.

Much of this debate centers on the dismissal and pooh-poohing of the previous dying-and-rising-god scholarship, with scholarly opinion all over the board concerning a variety of gods. Much nitpicking and hair-splitting, as well as red herrings and straw men, have been raised in this debate. While recognizing the contention that previous research favoring the thesis stems from a deluding perspective called interpretatio christiana, whereby one is incapable of seeing the data without a Christian framework, at one point Mettinger suggests that the opposite denial of the dying-and-rising-god thesis represents Christian bias.

Mettinger also brings up the recent research of Dr. S. Ribichini, who in his article in the scholarly and conservative Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible or DDD remarks:


We also here the opinion of Dr. Edward Lipiński, editor of Phoenicia and the East Mediterranean in the First Millennium B.C., who "discusses Adonis in terms of a dying and rising deity..." Mettinger continues to recount about Lipinski:


Mettinger does aver that "there is a respectable research tradition that finds insurmountable difficulties for the conclusion that Adonis was a dying and rising deity." (Mettinger, RR, 33.) Yet, citing Gaster, Mettinger continues with an illuminating discourse regarding the Ugaritic god Baal:


A long discussion concerning Baal's death and "revivification" or "resuscitation" follows. Mettinger makes it clear that he is following the discomfiture of Christian scholars with using terms they attempt to claim as their own, such as "resurrection." However, the Semantic game will not suffice, since "resurrection" and "revivification" essentially mean the same thing: A return to life. Mettinger further states:


To this statement, Mettinger appends a note saying, "It seems to me that the discussion of these matters sometimes suffer [sic] from a certain (Christian) bias..." Indeed, we would submit that it OFTEN suffers from a Christian bias that attempts to assert supremacy at every turn and no matter the cost of honesty, integrity and ethics.

We also hear from the Oxford University professor Dr. John Day, who is discussed by Mettinger thus:


Oh my, I just cannot thank our apologist cult interloper for recommending this wonderful book!

And the fun and games have just begun! Having outlined the current scholarly debate, next comes Mettinger's turn to promote his own thesis as concerns the dying-and-rising gods.


What?

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

What??

Acharya continues:

Baal Dies and Rises from the Dead

In his opus The Riddle of the Resurrection, Mettinger spends considerable time exploring the evidence for the idea that the Ugaritic god Baal - who predates the common era by millennia - died and was resurrected from the dead.

First he recounts how various scholars of recent times (Barstad, J.Z. Smith and M.S. Smith) have dismissed the dying-and-rising aspect of Baal and claimed of him merely a "disappearing" deity. Next he says:


Mettinger's work is meticulous in citing ancient primary sources, in their original languages or, rather, transliterations thereof, including as inscribed on a variety of artifacts. This work is scholarly to the Nth degree.

Continuing to examine the evidence, again Mettinger notes, "Originally Baal did die." (Mettinger, RR, 60.) And once more, he says, "Moreover, it is clear from a number of other observations that Baal is thought to have made a proper descent into the Netherworld." (Mettinger, RR, 61.) Discussing the myth further, Mettinger adds, "The reaction among the gods also amounts to a clear indication that Baal is really dead." (Mettinger, RR, 62.)

Mettinger has established that Baal certainly dies. Next, he discusses the "coming of the autumnal rains," remarking, "These rains are the reliable sign that Baal is no longer dead but 'lives' and 'exists.'" (Mettinger, RR, 63.) At this point, Mettinger concludes:


Mettinger next remarks:


It could not be any more obvious that the ancient pre-Christian god Baal dies and resurrects from the dead. It should be noted that the word in the New Testament for "resurrection" is ἀνάστασις (anastasis), which literally means "the standing up." This is the precise terminology used by the Horus-priest in the Egyptian funerary literature to raise up Osiris: "Stand up!" he shouts.

The word ἀνάστασις did not originate with Christianity, and it is by no means Christian property. Nor is it common translation into English as "resurrection" the property of Christian doctrine. The word "resurrection" can be used in any circumstance where the term ἀνάστασις or "standing up" would be appropriate, as concerns being raised from the dead. And we can see abundantly here, there were many instances of such RESURRECTION in pre-Christian times, despite the protests by the utterly uninformed.

Mettinger further explains the astrotheological or nature-worshipping meaning of the Baal-Mot myth:


Interestingly, Baal is also a healer and savior. (Mettinger, RR, 73.) Hence, BAAL IS A DYING AND RISING SAVIOR GOD, eons before the common era and the creation of Christianity.

Concerning the semantic ruse of not using the word "resurrection" - which, as we have seen, is fallacious - or saying that the god merely "descends" or "disappears," Mettinger states, "One could add that descent and disappearance are two analogous metaphors for death." (Mettinger, RR, 77.)

Regarding Baal, Mettinger concludes:


It becomes obvious later in the book that Mettinger tires of the pretext of avoiding the term "resurrection" in order to appease his Christian colleagues, et al., as over several more pages, he uses the word frequently to describe what happens to other gods, including Melqart-Heracles, the Phoenician-Greek hybrid god, whom Mettinger likewise deems as a "dying-and-rising deity."

All in all, it is evident that the illogical shift away from the "dying-and-rising-god" category to other concepts such as "birth-death-rebirth deities" is contrived and forced unnecessarily. The category of "dying and rising gods" is safe and well established, despite desperate efforts from the Christian apologist cult.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?

What???

Acharya continues:

The Death and Resurrection of Melqart-Heracles

That's right, Tat, this book is one of the greatest gifts I could have ever received. Rather than bolstering their preposterous claims, Mettinger completely dismantles the fallacious contentions of the Cult of Christian Apologetics ringleader J.Z. Smith regarding the dying-and-rising-god mytheme. Note that Mettinger also shyly adds that he believes this nonsensical (my word) stance is based on a Christian bias, which we here can readily see from this entire thread and which consists of denials, dismissals, omissions and outright falsehoods by the cult members.

In any event, Mettinger proceeds to demonstrate that the hybrid god Melqart-Heracles, as well as his separate parts, also was a dying-and-rising god.

The god Melqart is essentially Phoenician, and he was assimilated to the Greek god Herakles/Heracles/Hercules centuries before the common era. Melqart, in fact, is another Baal, which means "Lord," and his name is also transliterated as Melkart, which is a combination of the word "Melek" or "Molech," meaning "king," with the word for "city." In any event, Melqart is called the "Tyrian Herakles," after the Phoenician city of Tyre.

In a section entitled "1. References to the Death of the Deity," Mettinger first discusses the death of Hercules, whose bones were said to be at the city of Gades (modern Spanish city of Cadiz). Mettinger quotes the Greek writer Athenaeus (c. 200 CE) as relating the following from Eudoxus of Cnidus (4th cent. BCE) concerning Herakles/Hercules:


Mettinger next remarks:


We thus possess two citations that this Herculean death and resurrection was recorded at least as early as the fourth century BCE. Hence, the entire notion that there are no dying-and-rising gods before the middle of the second century is false, period. Let us hear no more such nonsense and lies from the cult of Christian apologetics.

Continuing, Mettinger recounts the story related by Diodorus Siculus during the first century BCE that Hercules died by fire on a pyre:


Let us hear no more nonsense and lies from the cult about there being no pre-Christian ascension to heaven.

In concluding this section, Mettinger remarks:


As a meticulous scholar using whatever primary sources he can find in as many original languages as he can read, Mettinger examines the evidence of Hercules being resurrected and concludes:


Mettinger also says:


Mettinger reiterates:


Mettinger also cites the notion of a bodily resurrection as found in the Hebrew Bible (Isa 26:19; Hos 6:2), indicating a Semitic tradition that surely was not exclusive to the Jews. Indeed, Hosea 6:2 says:


This passage sounds quite like what happens in the Egyptian religion - and it also could be claimed to have been used as a BLUEPRINT in the creation of the Christ myth. The most illogical and unscientific perspective would insist that this concept of death and resurrection could only be found within the Jewish religion/tradition, and that it was fulfilled as prophecy in a "historical Jesus." Reason and logic dictate otherwise.

Mettinger also discusses the hieros gamos or "sacred marriage," saying, "We know that features of the hieros gamos sometimes occur in connection with deities who are believed to die and return to life." (Mettinger, RR, 95.) That sounds like a whole lotta dying-and-rising gods!

After examining the evidence specifically as it concerns the Phoenician god Melqart, Mettinger concludes:


And in another reiteration - leaving no room for doubt as to his position, which he and I believe has proved - Mettinger states:


A "stock theme" would indicate that this god's death and resurrection was commonly known and celebrated, long before the common era and the allegedly existence of Jesus Christ.

Indeed, Mettinger proceeds to offer up quite a list of where this death and resurrection were celebrated, indicating a fairly impressive popularity for this pre-Christian dying-and-rising god motif:


As we can see, despite the falsehoods of the Cult of Christian Apologetics, there were dying-and-rising gods all over the place, and Jesus Christ is but a johnny-come-lately in a long line.

Next time: Adonis.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?