Well, I refer you back to all my posts above. Keep in mind that I never said "TZM as a whole has to take a stance on religion
" as if it were some doctrine that everyone must follow. All I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with TZGM taking a position on religion that is consistent with its RBE goals and ZG1. It's just common sense. That really shouldn't be a shocker. What doesn't make any sense is for TZGM to pretend like ZG1 never existed. I explain more on that later in this post.
"to take a stance on religion is absurd and counter productive to what we are trying to do"
No, that's false and you probably already know that but this is what ZG members keep repeating like a mantra so, everyone just goes along with it. It's not counter productive at all - it would simply be consistent.
"This only works of every Atheist agrees with the Mythacist position."
That's false and I think you already know that too. It's not about forcing it on anyone - it's about simply letting members know that the mythicist position even exists as an option. One that Peter Joseph supports or endorses or whatever.
"By doing so we would create a division that would otherwise stifle our intended goals."
TZGM creates its own division by not being consistent with the movies that made it popular in the first place.
"You don't have to be a mythacist, nor do you even have to take a stance on any religion in order to be a TZM member."
As it should be. All I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with TZGM favoring freethought and the mythicist position. I think you may be assuming that I'm asking for far, far more than I really am. I'd like to see TZGM front page provide a link to the mythicist position video and article just to inform ZG members that it even exists as an option.
"there are already Christian Fundies and closed minded tards out there trying to conflate the movies as the movement."
One doesn't need to be a fundy or anything else to conflate the two. It's a weird strategic move that doesn't make sense to me either, which all could've been avoided by naming it the Venus Project Movement or something other than Zeitgeist. That's what I would've done if I wanted clear differentiation between them.
"To take a stance on the Mythacist position would give the antagonists actually legitimate ammo to state that the movies are the movement."
Think about what you're saying. By not being consistent TZGM gives them loads of ammo too. The antagonists are always going to antagonize, might as well give them less to complain about by being consistent. Otherwise, you've got a bunch of Keith Trashheads out there seeing this as confirmation that they're influencing TZGM with their prayers to Jesus. TZGM is giving them power by not having the courage of its convictions to be consistent with ZG1.
"TZM doesn't need to take a stance on Mythacism officially, we all know PJ endorses it because of his stance on the movies"
He has never said a word about it to my knowledge. He's never let ZG members know it exists as an option or that he supports it. Peter has done plenty of advertising and promotion for the VP for Jaque Fresco but, he has never let ZG members know Acharya created a mythicist position to enable people to have a position on religion that is consistent with ZG1 and the movement. I would think many ZG members would appreciate that greatly. It's really weird when people try to post at the ZGM forum in the religion section to discuss something on part 1 and their thread gets moved over to the "miscellaneous" section and have a moderator yell at them for posting about ZG1 in the religion section.
Let me break it down like this:
1. Much confusion could've been avoided by calling it the Venus Project Movement instead of TZGM. Then, nobody would've ever needed to repeatedly explain why or how TZGM has nothing to do with the movies. Claiming that TZGM has nothing to do with the movies will never make any sense no matter how many times they try to explain it. It's a monumental error that should probably be fixed.
2. Consider all mentions of "environment," "nature," "natural world" and "natural resources" etc. by Peter Joseph, Jacque Fresco and TZGM.
"In the view of The Movement, the world today has become very detached from the physical world, with techniques of production and distribution that have no relationship to the environment. Our use of a profit based, “growth” driven monetary system has become one of the greatest destroyers of the natural world, not to mention sustainable human values."
- What is The Zeitgeist Movement?
Ever consider that perhaps some of this may be due to the fact that economic and religious systems around the world are incompatible and inconsistent and have little to no appreciation for nature? Think about it.
3. If TZGM really wants a resource based economy (RBE) with a better "relationship to the environment
," then, perhaps it would be wise to be consistent. The mythicist position complements TZGM and its RBE goals and is consistent with Zeitgeist part 1. That's genius! What other system in the world has EVER had an economic position and a religious position that are consistent and complement one another in their appreciation for the environment, natural resources and nature itself geared towards sustainability? None that I am ware of.
TZGM has an outstanding opportunity to be the first throughout history to ever do so but, they're ignoring the elephant in the room against their own interests. Why? Because they're afraid of upsetting the religious crazies out there that aren't ever going to join TZGM anyway? Zeitgeist part 1 already exists and every criticism that is ever going to be made has already been said. We have successfully addressed those criticisms rendering them obsolete by providing new source citations from highly respected and credentialed scholarship as well as more primary sources in the New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook
Religion has a history of divisiveness that has resulted in constant conflict and war, which certainly affects economies. So, religion always has and always will have a huge affect on the economy in ways never quite honestly discussed. The Mythicist Position neutralizes the power of religious divisiveness by demonstrating that they're all connected via nature, mythology, astrotheology and archaeoastronomy. It's very difficult for any of the Abrahamic religions to claim superiority or dominance over Pagan religion when they find out that their origins all stem from nature. There can be no us vs. them in the mythicist position as we appreciate all of the similarities as well as differences due to environment, culture and era. The mythicist position supports learning about comparative religion and the substance behind the mythology, while Abrahamic religions do not - they only want you reading their specific holy texts in hopes of indoctrination and your money (economy). They still to this day lead people to believe that Pagan religion is evil and nothing could be further from the truth and the mythicist position exposes that for all to see.
So, in the end all I'm saying is that there are many links on the front of TZGM page - there's nothing wrong or inconsistent with adding a link to the mythicist position video. Look at how much advertising and promotion PJ has done for Jacque Fresco. I don't think asking for the minimum is too much to ask when Acharya (and the rest of us here) have worked so hard to defend and continue to substantiate Zeitgeist Part 1, do you?
4. TZGM may want to do a Google for "religion economy." I just did a quick search and a few interesting articles came up on the first page:Religion and Economy
Quote:Economics of religion
The economics of religion
"...scholars in huge numbers are analyzing the intersection of faith and economics. They include people from a range of disciplines from across the United States and around the world, and students doing cutting-edge work. The excitement has even inspired an organization dedicated to the economics of religion, which formally kicked off in fall 2004 with a conference that attracted international research papers.
Why it Matters
People’s beliefs affect practical decisions in everyday life, including economic ones, and religious organizations can be powerful players in the secular realms of government and politics.http://www.religionlink.com/tip_050131b.php
From "Moving Forward: "A Resource Based Economy" at 1:44:36 to 1:47:44
At 1:47:44 It says: "A Resource Based Economy: The scientific method applied to social concern"
Is religion not also a social concern? Please define "social concern" in case I missed it somewhere as I couldn't find a clear definition in TZGM Guide. Religion is a social concern to me when I have to worry about 'end times' apocalypse, Armageddon prophecies threatening to end the world due to religious beliefs. How does omitting all of that help the economy? If 90% of the planet are religious and believe that we're in the 'end times' what could possibly motivate them to improve the economy or even care? I feel very strongly that TZGM is making a fatal mistake by not continuing to address the issues of religion and its impact on society and our future.
I do like the design by Jacque Fresco at 1:52:19 as it is in the form of the 8 spoked Pagan Sunwheel. I wonder if he's aware of that?
This article is linked to the front page at TZGM but, just can't find a way to mention Acharya and her mythicist position just to let people know it even exists?
"Nature itself is our teacher, and our social institutions and philosophies should be derived from this foundational and, invariably, 'spiritual' understanding.
The faster this spiritual awakening spreads, the more sane, peaceful and productive society will become."
That is one more argument for accepting the mythicist position into TZGM in one way or another right there already on TZGM website! This Stinkin' Earth
is a blog emphasizing my point that many religious folks couldn't care less about the environment.
"For the sake of justice and mankind's magnificent legacy-this information actually represents the best of humanity-we must not let the cover up of this crime against humanity stand and the burial of our heritage occur again. We have the tools and freedoms at last to reconstruct the past to a greater extent, to restore the ancient cultures to their proper place, and to delve into religious origins in a way never before enjoyed. Let us not allow this amazing opportunity to slip away based on the same blind belief, calumny and specious contentions that buried this legacy in the first place. This awakening towards our collective past and call to preserve it in the face of continued censorial onslaught represents the real challenge of ZEITGEIST."The Real Zeitgeist Challenge
P.S. It would be helpful to have the mythicist position
and Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence
linked in the Q & A section
under Acharya too.