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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:29 am 
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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
Quote:
Questioning of Prophet's existence stirs outcry

Muslim academic says research leads him to believe Muhammad is a mythical figure

Muhammad Sven Kalisch, 42, the chair of Islamic Studies at the University of Muenster and whose duties include training teachers for the rising number of Muslim students in German high schools, has created a furor by stating that in all probability Muhammad was a mythical creation.

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/557645


Interesting! Thanks for posting this. I intend to share it, as it has become a certified opinion of mine also. It's rather amazing a Muslim man could reach such opinions (about the 'Abrahamic' religons) and have the 'cojones' to say it like he sees it. Now there's a Freethinker! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:09 am 
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skullnboner wrote:

...has created a furor by stating that in all probability Muhammad was a mythical creation.



Best way to compare the myths is by using archetypal scrutiny.

jesus was the best Public Relations camPAIN to date in search of increasing market share using Shock and Awe tactics...

muhammad was another, the list of people invented or accomplishments embellished fulfilling the archetypes is endless...
Evidence that the character was more of an archetype than real, is the fact that often NO REAL evidence exists.
Now would that be a clue?

King Arthur is another fake...
Saint Longinus is another...
Saint George the dragonslayer...more blah blah...

The list is endless ...
Just call BS on most of it as being a true account of what happened...
Scriptures were figurative archetype that is meant to transcend SPACE and TIME...archetypes that can be used to assist anywhere and anytime.
To help the soul navigate...

Has the wisdom of Hamlet's Mill been dispensed with already?
Funny how Hamlet's Mill was released in 1969...a REAL TRUTH nicely expressed?
And also in 1969...we posited another BIG LIE onto humanity by claiming we put a Man ON the MOON...?
MOON Hoax ... Jesus Hoax ... Mohammed Hoax ... Moses and Noah too?

namaste

Raphael


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:05 pm 
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KAchina wrote:
Mriana wrote:
Quote:
the energy inside me recognizes the energy inside you as one and the same


Sounds nice. Thanks Balu. :)


I am glad someone else stepped up to the namaste plate.
balu did a better job than me batting left.
That is one of the best definitions I have read balu.
Many people as you know balu would say the spirit in me...

AND how mriana summarized your offering is very similar to how I had summarized my definition too.
"the energy inside me recognizes the energy inside you"

But now I will need to add "as one and the same". to my def'n. :wink:

Balu you seem to have a knowledge of Sanskrit could you please tell me what you know about KA and KArna and the mystery schools of KArnataKA.

KA is a SOUND, that is quite the hangover leftover from the ORAL traditions. NOT to be ignored because it is a SOUND that transcends Space and Time.

Persia / Zoroaster was perched between EAST and WEST, in the middle or MESO.
Torah, Bible, Koran are all descendants of the MESO or middle cultures we are told...that arose in MESOpotamia.

But is that entirely true?

So please share the caca about KA.

namaste

Raphael


Never heard of the mystery schools of Karnataka although I have been a resident of the capital city of Karnataka State since birth. The name Karnataka itself is derived from the native Kari-nadu which means Land of the Elephants which was later anglicised by the Brits into Carnatic and later into Karnataka.

As far Ka as a sound is concerned, it is the first of the first batch of consonants in the Indian alphabets along with Ga and Nga and the aspirated versions Kha and Gha,( Nga is a nasal sound). Unlike in Roman and Arabic scripts, in the Indian script the vowels are arranged first and thereafter the consonants come in the order in which the sounds originate with reference to the vocal chords and the position of the tongue. The first and third letters will be soft while the second and fourth would be aspirated versions of the first and second with a bit of air expelled while uttering the sound. The fifth and the last in the batch would be always a nasal sound. Thus Ka, Kha,Ga,Gha and Nga originate from the back of the throat. The next batch is Cha,Chha,Ja, Jha and Nya which all are uttered with the tongue being flattened and lightly hitting the back of the teeth.

And so on.... such that you have 10 vowels, 3 semi vowels, 25 consonants and 8 semi consonants.

Don't know if this is what you are looking for and whether I answered your query. :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:13 pm 
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KAchina wrote:
Persia / Zoroaster was perched between EAST and WEST, in the middle or MESO.
Torah, Bible, Koran are all descendants of the MESO or middle cultures we are told...that arose in MESOpotamia.

But is that entirely true?


namaste

Raphael


Talking of Mesopatamia consider the usual sound shifts from Sanskrit into western languages. 'a' of Sans tends to become 'o', the 'ja' and 'ya' become interchangeable, the 'r' and 's' of Sans normally turn to 'L' and 'h'.

So Mesopotamia could very well be Mesha-Pathami-ja or those who are born along the path of Aries. Makes any sense to anyone?

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Ekavarnam yatha dugdham binnavarnasu dhenushu | tataiva dharmavaichitryam tatvam ekam param smritam ||
Just as milk is of only one colour though obtained from cows of different colours so also the peculiarities of different religious thoughts lead to the same one ultimate truth - Mahabharatha


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:24 am 
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balu wrote:

And so on.... such that you have 10 vowels, 3 semi vowels, 25 consonants and 8 semi consonants.

Don't know if this is what you are looking for and whether I answered your query. :shock:


much info to digest, as always...why only a total of 46 letters?
I thought there were 50?

Quote:
Irfah concluded that “place-value numeral system developed in India and this system is embedded in the Sanskrit language”


cool...

In regards to the mystery school ... I thought I had read something about it...but I may have placed the mystery school alongside Pythagoras when he visited India? :?

KA is also very easily traced back to Chaldea.
KA is worth investigating.
WHY?
BeKAuse of its ability to transcend borders, space and time...it is a SOUND associated with divinity.
An echo of truth.

namaste

Raphael


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Here's a re-post of Acharya's
Quote:
The Non-Historicity of Mohammed/Muhammad

Above this post I excerpted an article about a German "revert" scholar - now unconverted - who questions the historical existence of Mohammed. I have known about this debate for many years, having briefly raised it in an article with quotes from Islam, specifically as concerns the Russian scholar N.A. Moroz.

Apparently, Western scholarship has moved apace since then. In an article by Christopher Hitchens about the hopefully pending death of the Islamic Republic of Iran, a commenter makes the following intriguing remarks:

Quote:
Posted By: Oldspeak @ 01/03/2010 11:45:25 AM

It would probably be helpful if Westerners stopped indulging the notion that Mohammed was a real historical figure. He was made up by the late 7th century caliphate to justify rule along blood lines. Western scholars are skeptical of his historicism. There is no contemporary evidence that he existed. There are no writings of Mohammed, no eyewitness accounts, no contemporary references to him or his actions by historians (of which there were many) inside or outside that part of the world. There are no coins, no artifacts, no buildings in his name, nothing. His case is based strictly on hearsay, forgeries, and absurd interpretations of authentic documents (e.g., the Jacobi Doctrine), and the Mohammed story contradicts many known facts about the region at the time. For example, there was no Mecca in the early 7th century. The first references to him occur about five decades after his supposed death. The oldest known Koran, the Sana'a, was written on palimpset, an erasable parchment. The parchment dates from the late 7th century. The calligraphic writings on it date around 710 ACE, and there are differences with the standard Koran. This is best explained by an ambitious caliphate collating Christian-influenced religious doctrines that had been in circulation, and solidifying it with a compelling story of a divine prophet, to whom they claimed relation.

People have a right to believe what they want to believe, but if they are going to act violent based on certain doctrines, then I don't see that we have any choice but to discredit the doctrines.

The question is begged, of course, why Western scholars are so eager to apply serious scientific inquiry to the question of Mohammed's existence, while resisting with all their might the same logical study concerning Jesus Christ? Especially when there is in fact far more evidence for the existence of Mohammed than for Jesus?

This debate is a reflection of cultural programming pure and simple. Just remember that fact next time someone raises the tired and false argument that "no credible scholar questions the existence of Jesus Christ." I submit that the lack of questioning this historicity in the face of so little evidence is a sign that the scholar is not credible.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:52 am 
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As FTL has reposted here, I have a brief post on this subject on the "Truth about Islam" thread:

Is Mohammed a myth?

And here's another blog about this subject, which you may or may not have already linked to:

Muslim scholar: Moham is a "myth"

Mohammed and the 12 Caliphs - sound familiar? Except in this case, it would be largely a lunar cult, rather than a solar cult. Thirteen months of the year, etc.

We are talking about a stealthy night-sky cult - make sense? The fat agriculturalists in their villages are the prey, while the night-sky cultists wait patiently in the hills... Well, the rest is in the Bible, with the previous megalomaniacal night-sky cultists, the Israelites, preying on the Canaanites, et al.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Well... I can honestly say this Muslim makes a whole lot of sense. Too bad few will listen to him, but I think he is onto something that will also show that Islam is a myth- rewritten mythology, just as Xianity and Judaism is.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:27 am 
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Here's another article - from 2008 - about this professor Dr. Sven Kalisch. Islamic scholar Robert Spencer - a Catholic - is purportedly working on a book Did Muhammad Exist? It is interesting that, even though there is much more evidence for the existence of Mohammed than there is for the existence of Jesus Christ, Western scholars evidently have no problem considering that Mohammed may not have existed, while most, whether Christian or not, will throw absolute hissy fits if anyone suggests that Jesus is a mythical character.

Quote:
Islamic Theologian Says Prophet Muhammad Likely Never Existed

Professor Hired for Outreach to Muslims Delivers a Jolt
Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed

By ANDREW HIGGINS

MÜNSTER, Germany -- Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim convert and Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, fasts during the Muslim holy month, doesn't like to shake hands with Muslim women and has spent years studying Islamic scripture. Islam, he says, guides his life.

So it came as something of a surprise when Prof. Kalisch announced the fruit of his theological research. His conclusion: The Prophet Muhammad probably never existed.

Muslims, not surprisingly, are outraged. Even Danish cartoonists who triggered global protests a couple of years ago didn't portray the Prophet as fictional. German police, worried about a violent backlash, told the professor to move his religious-studies center to more-secure premises.

"We had no idea he would have ideas like this," says Thomas Bauer, a fellow academic at Münster University who sat on a committee that appointed Prof. Kalisch. "I'm a more orthodox Muslim than he is, and I'm not a Muslim."

When Prof. Kalisch took up his theology chair four years ago, he was seen as proof that modern Western scholarship and Islamic ways can mingle -- and counter the influence of radical preachers in Germany. He was put in charge of a new program at Münster, one of Germany's oldest and most respected universities, to train teachers in state schools to teach Muslim pupils about their faith.

Muslim leaders cheered and joined an advisory board at his Center for Religious Studies. Politicians hailed the appointment as a sign of Germany's readiness to absorb some three million Muslims into mainstream society. But, says Andreas Pinkwart, a minister responsible for higher education in this north German region, "the results are disappointing."

Prof. Kalisch, who insists he's still a Muslim, says he knew he would get in trouble but wanted to subject Islam to the same scrutiny as Christianity and Judaism. German scholars of the 19th century, he notes, were among the first to raise questions about the historical accuracy of the Bible.

Many scholars of Islam question the accuracy of ancient sources on Muhammad's life. The earliest biography, of which no copies survive, dated from roughly a century after the generally accepted year of his death, 632, and is known only by references to it in much later texts. But only a few scholars have doubted Muhammad's existence. Most say his life is better documented than that of Jesus.

"Of course Muhammad existed," says Tilman Nagel, a scholar in Göttingen and author of a new book, "Muhammad: Life and Legend." The Prophet differed from the flawless figure of Islamic tradition, Prof. Nagel says, but "it is quite astonishing to say that thousands and thousands of pages about him were all forged" and there was no such person.

All the same, Prof. Nagel has signed a petition in support of Prof. Kalisch, who has faced blistering criticism from Muslim groups and some secular German academics. "We are in Europe," Prof. Nagel says. "Education is about thinking, not just learning by heart."

Prof. Kalisch's religious studies center recently removed a sign and erased its address from its Web site. The professor, a burly 42-year-old, says he has received no specific threats but has been denounced as apostate, a capital offense in some readings of Islam.

"Maybe people are speculating that some idiot will come and cut off my head," he said during an interview in his study.

A few minutes later, an assistant arrived in a panic to say a suspicious-looking digital clock had been found lying in the hallway. Police, called to the scene, declared the clock harmless.

A convert to Islam at age 15, Prof. Kalisch says he was drawn to the faith because it seemed more rational than others. He embraced a branch of Shiite Islam noted for its skeptical bent. After working briefly as a lawyer, he began work in 2001 on a postdoctoral thesis in Islamic law in Hamburg, to go through the elaborate process required to become a professor in Germany.

The Sept. 11 attacks in the U.S. that year appalled Mr. Kalisch but didn't dent his devotion. Indeed, after he arrived at Münster University in 2004, he struck some as too conservative. Sami Alrabaa, a scholar at a nearby college, recalls attending a lecture by Prof. Kalisch and being upset by his doctrinaire defense of Islamic law, known as Sharia.

In private, he was moving in a different direction. He devoured works questioning the existence of Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Then "I said to myself: You've dealt with Christianity and Judaism but what about your own religion? Can you take it for granted that Muhammad existed?"

He had no doubts at first, but slowly they emerged. He was struck, he says, by the fact that the first coins bearing Muhammad's name did not appear until the late 7th century -- six decades after the religion did.

He traded ideas with some scholars in Saarbrücken who in recent years have been pushing the idea of Muhammad's nonexistence. They claim that "Muhammad" wasn't the name of a person but a title, and that Islam began as a Christian heresy.

Prof. Kalisch didn't buy all of this. Contributing last year to a book on Islam, he weighed the odds and called Muhammad's existence "more probable than not." By early this year, though, his thinking had shifted. "The more I read, the historical person at the root of the whole thing became more and more improbable," he says.

He has doubts, too, about the Quran. "God doesn't write books," Prof. Kalisch says.

Image

Some of his students voiced alarm at the direction of his teaching. "I began to wonder if he would one day say he doesn't exist himself," says one. A few boycotted his lectures. Others sang his praises.

Prof. Kalisch says he "never told students 'just believe what Kalisch thinks' " but seeks to teach them to think independently. Religions, he says, are "crutches" that help believers get to "the spiritual truth behind them." To him, what matters isn't whether Muhammad actually lived but the philosophy presented in his name.

This summer, the dispute hit the headlines. A Turkish-language German newspaper reported on it with gusto. Media in the Muslim world picked up on it.

Germany's Muslim Coordinating Council withdrew from the advisory board of Prof. Kalisch's center. Some Council members refused to address him by his adopted Muslim name, Muhammad, saying that he should now be known as Sven.

German academics split. Michael Marx, a Quran scholar at the Berlin-Brandenburg Academy of Sciences, warned that Prof. Kalisch's views would discredit German scholarship and make it difficult for German scholars to work in Muslim lands. But Ursula Spuler-Stegemann, an Islamic studies scholar at the University of Marburg, set up a Web site called solidaritymuhammadkalisch.com and started an online petition of support.

Alarmed that a pioneering effort at Muslim outreach was only stoking antagonism, Münster University decided to douse the flames. Prof. Kalisch was told he could keep his professorship but must stop teaching Islam to future school teachers.

The professor says he's more determined than ever to keep probing his faith. He is finishing a book to explain his thoughts. It's in English instead of German because he wants to make a bigger impact. "I'm convinced that what I'm doing is necessary. There must be a free discussion of Islam," he says.

Theology Without Muhammad

Read a translated excerpt from "Islamic Theology Without the Historic Muhammad -- Comments on the Challenges of the Historical-Critical Method for Islamic Thinking" by Professor Kalisch.

Below are translated excerpts from an article in German entitled, "Islamic Theology Without the Historic Muhammad -- Comments on the Challenges of the Historical-Critical Method for Islamic Thinking," by Germany's Prof. Muhammad Kalisch, a Muslim.

Up to some time ago I was convinced that Muhammad was a historical figure. Although I always based my thinking on the assumption that the Islamic historical narrative regarding Muhammad was very unreliable, I had no doubts that at least the basic lines of his biography were historically correct.

I have now moved away from this position and will soon publish a book in which I will, among other things, comment on this question and explain my arguments in more detail. This essay is only a short summary of my most important arguments. It also deals with the question of what implications historical-critical research has for the Islamic theory and how I deal with my research results as a theologian.

With regard to the historical existence of Muhammad ... I consider my position simply as a continuation of the most recent research results. It appears so spectacular only because it has been said by a Muslim ... Most Western scientists turn down such an hypotheses out of respect for Islam or because they are afraid of the reactions of their Muslim friends or because they think it is speculative nonsense.

The word "respect" sounds wonderful but it is completely inappropriate here because one really refers to the opposite. Whoever thinks that Muslims can't deal with facts puts Muslims on the same level as small children who can't think and decide for themselves and whose illusions of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny one doesn't want to destroy.

Whoever really bases his thoughts on the equality of all human beings must expect the same intellectual performance. Really treating Muslims with respect would imply that they are strong enough to deal with their religion on the basis of our modern level of knowledge. "Islamophobes" think we Muslims are barbarians, the "kind-hearted" take us for "noble savages"... The result is the same: Muslims are seen as different from the rest of the world -- they either belong in a "petting zoo" or in cages for wild animals, but by all means they belong in a zoo.

The final argument is even more awful because it can only be described as cowardly. Religious fundamentalists are spreading out (not only Islamic fundamentalist) and freedom of thought must be defended no matter what. There must not be any compromise on this otherwise we set the track for a retreat into the Middle Ages and this can happen much faster than many people think.

My position with regard to the historical existence of Muhammad is that I believe neither his existence nor his non-existence can be proven. I, however, lean towards the non-existence but I don't think it can be proven. It is my impression that, unless there are some sensational archeological discoveries -- an Islamic "Qumran" or "Nag Hammadi" -- the question of Muhammad's existence will probably never be finally clarified.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:33 pm 
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This should be fun - coming in April 2012.

Now, is it really that difficult to believe that Jesus Christ is a fictional character? And why don't American scholars do the due diligence with Christ that their European counterparts have done with Mohammed? It's more difficult to believe that Christ existed than it is about Mohammed. There's far more convincing evidence of Mohammed, including thousands of hadiths and sunnah about what the Islamic prophet allegedly said and did. Mohammed's story has supernatural elements, but these are not particularly germane to his biography, whereas Jesus's alleged miracles constitute proof he is the son of God.

Anyway, we can see the double standard here and that this book will open up a number of wormy cans. If we can ask this question, did Mohammed exist?, we can likewise ask, did Jesus exist?

One thing can be said: Robert Spencer has stones. (As does his publisher and everyone else associated with this project.)

Quote:
Did Muhammad Exist?
by Robert Spencer

My eleventh book, Did Muhammad Exist? (ISI) is now listed at Amazon.com, with a publication date of April 9. Here is a short explanation of what the book contains:

Are jihadists dying for a fiction? Everything you thought you knew about Islam is about to change.

In Did Muhammad Exist? best-selling author Robert Spencer meticulously examines historical records, archaeological findings, and pioneering new scholarship to reconstruct what can be known about Muhammad, the Qur’an, and the early days of Islam. He uncovers evidence that calls into question fundamental assumptions made even by non-Muslims. Did Muhammad Exist? reveals:

The earliest biographical material about Muhammad dates from 150 years after the traditional date of his death.
Neither the Arab conquerors of the seventh century nor the people they conquered made any mention of Muhammad, the Qur’an, or Islam for fully six decades.
Recent scholarship indicating that the Qur’an was constructed from existing materials—including a pre-Islamic Christian text.
Numerous archaeological indications that Islam as a religion was fashioned for political reasons.

Far from an anti-Islamic polemic, Did Muhammad Exist? is a sober and unflinching look at the origins of one of the world’s major religions. While Judaism and Christianity have been subjected to searching historical criticism for more than two centuries, Islam has, astonishingly, never received the same treatment on any significant scale. In bringing to light the latest scholarship on Muhammad and Islam, Robert Spencer raises questions of global consequence.

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Freethought Nation Blog: Did Mohammed exist?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:02 pm 
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I find the stories attributed to Mohammed and his early Caliphate to be far more realistic (though themselves often ahistorical) than those of Jesus. That being said, I don't believe Islam ever was or even is anything other than an Arabized form of Jewish Christianity; I find it just about as plausible that Mohammed is a fictional character as that he was a front-man for some reformist Arab Christian who wanted to distinguish his version of Christianity from the Roman Catholicizers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:18 am 
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The word ‘Pedophile’ is defined in the dictionary as:

An adult who is sexually attracted to young children. (1)

The popular Psychology Website, ‘Psychology Today’ says of Pedophilia:

Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children. Pedophiles are usually men, and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies.Perpetrators often delude themselves into viewing their actions as helpful to children. They might tell themselves they are contributing to a child's development…(2)

Now, my Muslim brothers and sisters, please do not be alarmed, or feel persecuted by the question this article poses, for it is a fair question, given the evidence.

I have recently begun my research into Islam and I should first explain my methodology. As I have done with other religions and mythologies, I began by buying three notebooks. One for the central texts, which I read and write out, verse for verse, with my own personal commentary on verses that grab my attention, another notebook for commentaries on both the central and peripheral texts, along with traditions arising from these texts, by members of that religion/mythology, (if available) and the other notebook, for critical and impartial commentary. I work on all three notebooks at the same time, allotting portions of each day, for each of the three aspects of my research. On my third day, working with the materials I have at present, (anxiously awaiting the arrival much more) I came across this little curiosity. You see, when I start looking at the commentaries, I read through the contents of the commentaries, and begin where I find something that grabs my attention. I feel that combining both chronological and random methods of research, works well for me and keeps me inspired.

Here is what I found that got my attention and led me to look a little deeper into the issue. You see, in the peripheral Islamic body of texts, known as the Hadith, (specifically, within the Sahih Bukhari; ‘Sahih’ meaning ‘reliable’ and Bukhari, being the name of the Imam, Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari (810-870 CE), who compiled these particular Hadith), I discovered something quite disturbing about the Prophet Muhammad and his favourite wife, Aishah. Perhaps I should let Aishah tell the story herself, as there is nothing better than letting the subject of an investigation speak for themselves, if we can in fact, trust these alleged “holy texts”:

My marriage (wedding) contract with the Prophet was written when I was a girl of six (years). My mother, Umm Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became normal, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari [recent Muslim converts] women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.(3)

Ok, so how old was Muhammad when he took his prepubescent bride? He was just over 50 years of age.(4) And how old was Aishah, when he had sexual intercourse with her? She was 9 years old! (5).

In her revealing book, Sexual Ethics & Islam: Feminist Reflections on Qu’ran, Hadith and Jurisprudence, Professor of Religion, Kecia Ali says:

According to Sahih Bukhari, viewed by Sunni Muslims as the most authentic compilation of hadith reports about the Prophet and his companions, Aishah was a girl of six when her father,Abu Bakr, married her off to his close friend Muhammad. Accounts in Sahih Muslim, the second most respected compilation, suggest an age at marriage of either six or seven.4 The accounts agree, however, that she was “a girl of nine” when Muhammad consummated the marriage. (6)


This is what the ‘reliable,’ or Sahih Hadith says. Now, add to this, the definition of the word, ‘pedophile,’ furnished above, and we have perfectly reasonable grounds for asking the question; was the prophet Muhammad a pedophile?

If not, then how do we explain the following law from the “perfect and complete” Qur’an, which prescribes a 3 month waiting period before divorcing women who have commenced menstruation (reached puberty) and:

“The same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated” Surah 65:4

Further, if Muhammad did not set this precedent, then why, in Muslim countries like Iran, which are under Sharia (Islamic) Law, for example, is the legal age for marriage (for girls) set at the age of 9?(7)

If you have any information about this issue, I would love to hear it.






References

1. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile?s=t
2. http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophilia
3. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1. Book 6. No. 304. Cited in: Robert Spencer. Islam Unveiled. Encounter Books. (2002). p. 47.
4. Sahih Bukhari. Volume 7. Book 67. No. 5196. Ibid.
5. Sahih Bukhari. Book of Marriage. No. 64, 65, 88. Cited in: Kecia Ali. Sexual Ethics & Islam: Feminist Reflections on Qu’ran, Hadith and Jurisprudence. Oneworld Publications Oxford (2006). p. 135.
6. Ibid.
7. Lisa Beyer, “The Women of Islam,” Time, 25 November, 2001.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Thor

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Why was my post moved here? I am not upset or discontent, just curious.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:25 am 
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Please do a search before posting to see if a topic already exists. Otherwise, it makes more work for me and makes it more difficult for others to find all the relevant threads on a given topic. We have threads specifically on Islam and this thread specifically on Muhammad.

In order to make finding topics more convenient I have to search around for all the relevant threads and collect them and post them so others may more easily find them all. This is just a free forum so, the search engine isn't perfect and doesn't always pull up what it should. Here's an example of what all I have to do to collect all the threads on a given topic: 3 Kings/Orion's Belt & Solstice/Christmas.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:22 am 
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Thor

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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
Please do a search before posting to see if a topic already exists. Otherwise, it makes more work for me and makes it more difficult for others to find all the relevant threads on a given topic. We have threads specifically on Islam and this thread specifically on Muhammad.

In order to make finding topics more convenient I have to search around for all the relevant threads and collect them and post them so others may more easily find them all. This is just a free forum so, the search engine isn't perfect and doesn't always pull up what it should. Here's an example of what all I have to do to collect all the threads on a given topic: 3 Kings/Orion's Belt & Solstice/Christmas.



I saw my post as distinct from this one, as it was addressing the morality of the founder of Islam, not the issue of his historicity. It's all good though, no prob.

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