I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here, but I refer, of course, to the numerous accounts such as the hadiths and assorted other tales surrounding Mohammed, as well as the stories about his slaughter, with hundreds of followers rampaging through the Arabian continent, and so on. These stories certainly indicate that someone was doing all these things, as do the historical, archaeological and ethnological records. Countless people claim to be descendants of Mohammed as well. The same type of "evidence" for Jesus is quite minimal by comparison.
Hence, I am interested in how all these Islamic texts will be explained by those tackling this subject, which I too will be tackling, possible sometime next year.
jffelix61 wrote:
Acharya wrote:
Especially when there is in fact far more evidence for the existence of Mohammed than for Jesus?
Hope everyone is happy and well.
I'm curious because the Hitchens quote says "... nothing. His case is based strictly on hearsay, forgeries, and absurd interpretations of authentic documents ...," so 0 > 0? I would argue that Jesus and Mohammed are equally non-historical.
So what is the evidence I am no doubt unaware of that carries more historical weight for Mohammed's historicity? Well, maybe I'm asking selfishly for too much information for a forum post.
Thanks.
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
Islamic extremists have launched a poster campaign across the UK proclaiming areas where Sharia law enforcement zones have been set up.
Communities have been bombarded with the posters, which read: ‘You are entering a Sharia-controlled zone – Islamic rules enforced.’
The bright yellow messages daubed on bus stops and street lamps have already been seen across certain boroughs in London and order that in the ‘zone’ there should be ‘no gambling’, ‘no music or concerts’, ‘no porn or prostitution’, ‘no drugs or smoking’ and ‘no alcohol’.
Hate preacher Anjem Choudary has claimed responsibility for the scheme, saying he plans to flood specific Muslim and non-Muslim communities around the UK and ‘put the seeds down for an Islamic Emirate in the long term’.
In the past week, dozens of streets in the London boroughs of Waltham Forest, Tower Hamlets and Newham have been targeted, raising fears that local residents may be intimidated or threatened for flouting ‘Islamic rules’.
Choudary, who runs the banned militant group Islam4UK, warned: ‘We now have hundreds if not thousands of people up and down the country willing to go out and patrol the streets for us and a print run of between 10,000 and 50,000 stickers ready for distribution...."
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
What I will find interesting is what will they "do" when they come across these things that they think they have banned? Maybe Anjem could add, plotting to make bombs and wife beating to his little list, but maybe that is too much to ask.
Many Bulgarians are fighting back against a rising tide of Islamic extremists in their country. Naturally, they are being depicted as "racist right-wing xenophobes."
"Islamic extremists are active in the country with Bulgaria's government officially tolerant, but Muslim minorities and their problems being often ignored by central authorities."
This statement comes from a cable, dated October 10, 2005, sent to the US State Department by former US Ambassador to Sofia, John Beyrle, titled "Islam and Islamic Extremism in Bulgaria. It was released by the site for investigative journalism Bivol.bg, partner of the whistle-blowing site Wikilekas.
"Moderate central Islamic institutions are nearly bankrupt and cannot afford to pay salaries to imams or fund moderate religious education. Islamic institutions at every level are financially dependent on loosely-monitored foreign Islamic foundations, some of which promote Islamic extremism. Extremist activity in Bulgaria includes fundraising, logistical support to terrorist operations, and the recruitment of Bulgarian Muslims. Rampant unemployment, weak moderate Islamic institutions, and a history of discrimination enhance the vulnerability of Bulgarian Muslims to extremist exploitation," Beyrle writes in the cable....
In May 2011, Bulgarian "nationalists" took the to streets to confront a group of Muslim men praying in the streets with their loudspeakers. After some fist fights, one of the Muslim prayer rugs was grabbed and burned. The non-Muslim crowd was peopled by men, women and children - obviously not all members of a "right-wing" political party but of a popular uprising.
Here is an article describing the events in the video above. Naturally, it's slanted even in the title to make the non-Muslims appear to be irrational bigots without any legitimate grievances - these are all Islamist tactics.
Every Friday at noon, Muslims gather at the only mosque in Bulgaria’s capital, waiting for the daily prayer to start. Since their gathering turned bloody three weeks ago, police officers and television cameras have joined them.
During a rally in late May, supporters of the far-right party Ataka (“Attack”) hurled stones and eggs at the worshippers, while chanting “Bulgaria.” They were nominally protesting the speakers that play the call to prayer, which the nationalists claim to be too loud. The Muslims fought back, while the protesters burned prayer rugs and cut up religious hats. Several people were injured, including police officers...
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
Shocking and disturbing reality where young girls are being mutilated for the sake of a "culture" that they don't have, nor ever will have, any choice in. If there is a law against it, then they circumvent it by taking a little holiday to a back street surgeon and then catch that next plane home, if the child doesn't bleed to death that is. Personally I think that social services should be waiting at the airport to take the parents to jail, and the child be found a family that doesn't consider human genitals as disgusting mistakes of nature. This kind of thing drives me to hatred, very hard to remain rational with this. I will also have to say that male genital mutilation is just as sickening to me, but making the Judeo-Christian aware of that is like telling them Jesus wasn't real.
Yeah, sometimes I think evil is just another word for ignorance, when you call it evil it seems somehow powerful but when you think of it as ignorance you get a better picture of it's true nature.
Literalism aka fundamentalism is just plain IGNORANCE
Religious ignorance political ignorance etc etc etc
It seems we are surrounded by mentally retarded ignorant children who have no idea how retarded they are and will use force to get their ignorant way enforced.
What's a sanity seeker to do?
I suppose it is like when the nazis started to rise to power, lots of Germans thought ooooo this doesn't look good as the nazis took advantage of ignorance to take the floor.
Some folks got out of town, some folks tried to wait it out and see, eurggggh
What a shame all these ignorant mofo's can't just wake up and see what an embarrassing retard they are becoming.
Perhaps as they get more intrusive many people will just think, flap off you backwards retards.
Anyways viva la free thought and death to Fundy retards everywhere (metaphorically speaking of course)
I suppose it was only a question of time, but it's sickening, to say the least. It's as if we were deliberately bankrupted so that Islamists could purchase us. To say I'm horrified at these contentions would be an understatement.
The separation between mosque and state has been completely erased, as a Muslim nation is now the chief financier of a public school district in the United States of America!
Is it really in America’s best interests for our public schools to accept millions of dollars from a Muslim nation that helps Iran build its nukes? Absolutely not. Strings are attached. It’s a frightening development. And in the case of the Joplin, Missouri public schools, it’s the case of a school district selling its soul for a “longer-term partnership” for Muslim “cultural understanding and awareness.” Alhamdillullah [praise allah].
The damage caused by the tornado in Joplin, Missouri is tragic. But it’s also tragic that Joplin High School will accept at least $1 million ($500,000 plus another $500,000 in matching funds) from the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The many mainstream media press reports bill the donation as merely a donation for laptops. But that’s not the whole story. I dug deeper and found that it’s the start of what is billed as a “longer-term partnership” between the UAE and Joplin schools. According to a nauseating press release from the Joplin Schools,
JPS [Joplin Public Schools] and the UAE Embassy anticipate this grant as the start of a longer-term partnership between the two organizations. JPS and the Embassy hope to work together to develop programming that will deepen cultural understating [sic]and awareness between the US and the UAE....
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
Muslims in Lilburn, Georgia, have won the right to build at 20,000-sq-ft mosque, where they will undoubtedly attract many more who behave in the manner in the photos below - notice that these "worshippers" are not in the deserts of the Middle East but, rather, in the woods of Georgia.
Will it only be a question of time before they start slicing the heads of their children, which is part of the same Shiite Ashura "celebration?" And will Children Protective Service step in? Highly unlikely. No other group could get away with such vile child abuse, but don't be surprised if it happens.
A controversial, 20,000-square-foot Muslim worship center won approval Tuesday by city council members in Georgia.
The Lilburn City Council approved a Muslim congregation's request to construct the center after two years of contentious debate.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that the council approved the plan by a 3-1 vote.
The four-member council was deadlocked on a December vote of the zoning request. It prolonged a yearlong conflict among the Shiite Dar-E-Abbas congregation, city leaders and residents who oppose the group's expansion.
The congregation owns and worships on 1.4 acres. It originally sought to rezone more property, but later said it would build only a mosque and parking lot....
...Anders Behring Breivik reportedly received training at a secret paramilitary camp in Belarus...
Let’s take a closer look at the reported associations of Valery Lunev, the former KGB colonel under whose guidance Anders Breivik is said to have received paramilitary training in Belarus. Among other things, we read that Col. Lunev converted to Islam when he married a relative of the late Dzhokhar Dudayev, a former general in the Soviet Air Force and the first President of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria.
He also has connections with the Gulf Emirates. He is an officer in a private intelligence company, Far West LLC, which is based in Dubai, according to a translated Russian report. The brother of one of his colleagues in Russian intelligence was reportedly assassinated in Dubai.
The intrigue gets even thicker. The largest shareholder in Far West is Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former head of Saudi Military intelligence, and a former ambassador to both Great Britain and the United States. Other prominent shareholders include a general from Ukrainian military intelligence and a former subsidiary of the U.S. company Halliburton. Ruslan Saidov, a retired major on the Soviet General staff and a Muslim Chechen, holds a 25% share.
According to the Russian report, Both Saidov and Lunev are associated with the Grey Wolves, the underground Turkish radical nationalist group which has connections with Chechen separatists.
The same report lists what it says are some of Far West’s customers:
The largest Chinese state oil company; A consortium of families from Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Pakistan; Iranian high-tech export firms with connections to the speaker of the Iranian parliament; and A group of Ukrainian coal mine magnates in alliance with German manufacturers of nuclear power equipment....
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
On August 13, 2011, the Egyptian daily Roz Al-Yousef published an interview[1] with Sheikh 'Adel Shehato, a senior official in Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ), who, on March 23, 2011, was freed from prison in the wake of the Egyptian revolution. He was imprisoned in 1991 upon returning from a three-year sojourn in Afghanistan.
In the interview, Shehato expressed complete opposition to democracy "because it is not the faith of the Muslims, but the faith of the Jews and Christians." He said that although the youth of the Arab revolutions have not declared the implementation of shari'a as one of their goals, the mujahideen nonetheless identify with their aspiration to overthrow the Arab rulers, whom they had always considered "infidels who must be killed because they do not rule according to the shari'a." He added, however, that "once Allah's law is applied, the role of the people will end and Allah will reign supreme." He went on to say that although he supports Al-Qaeda's ideology, shari'a law would not be enforced by violence but by da'wa (preaching), whereas violence would be used only against the infidel Arab rulers.
Shehato said that if the mujahideen came to power in Egypt, they would launch a campaign of Islamic conquests aimed at subjecting the entire world to Islamic rule. Muslim ambassadors would be appointed to each country, charged with calling upon them to join Islam willingly, but if the countries refused, war would be waged against them. He also described the nature of the Islamic state to be established in Egypt: there would be no trade or cultural ties with non-Muslims; tourist sites at the pyramids, the Sphinx, and Sharm Al-Sheikh would be shut down "because the tourists come [there] to drink alcohol and fornicate," and all tourists wishing to visit Egypt would be required to comply with the conditions and laws of Islam; all art, painting, singing, dancing, and sculpture would be forbidden, and all culture would be purely Islamic.
Following are excerpts of the interview:
Sheikh 'Adel Shehato
The Term "Democracy" is Not in the Arab or Islamic Lexicon; Once Allah's Law Reigns Supreme, the People's Role will End
Q: "Do you support the uprising?"
Shehato: "...The [Egyptian] youth rose up for a certain ideal... They did not rise up in order to put the shari'a into practice, nor did they [complain] that Mubarak's regime did not rule in accordance with the shari'a... As Muslims, we must believe that the Koran is our constitution, and that it is [therefore] impossible for us to institute a Western democratic regime. I oppose democracy because it is not the faith of the Muslims, but the faith of the Jews and Christians. Simply put, democracy means the rule of the people itself over itself... According to Islam, it is forbidden for people to rule and to legislate laws, as Allah alone is ruler. Allah did not hand down the term [democracy] as a form of rule, and it is completely absent from the Arab and Islamic lexicon..."
Q: "If you do not believe in the rule of the people, why did you go out to Al-Tahrir Square with the slogan 'he People Wants to Implement the Shari'a?' Are you exploiting democracy in order to achieve what you want [only] to then abolish [democracy]?"
Shehato: "I am not exploiting democracy, since I have never joined and will never join politics or party activity... We believe that implementation of the shari'a [must be accomplished] far from the political game, though some [other] Islamic streams are willing to participate [in this game] in order to achieve the same goal [i.e., implementation of the shari'a]. We said that 'the people wants to implement the shari'a' because most of the people are Muslims, and also based on [our] reading of the situation on the ground. [At the same time,] we did not make demands for the people's sake in the people's name, but demanded the rule of Allah. And once Allah's law is instated, the role of the people will end and Allah will reign supreme."
Q: "How do you reconcile your opposition to the will of the people with the notion of shura [consultation] in Islam?"
Shehato: "'Shura' in Islam means that alongside the Muslim ruler, there is a steering council comprising the finest of the senior Muslim clerics, to be selected on the basis of their piety and political leadership [abilities]. But there is no consultation with commoners, such as workers and fallahin, nor is there consultation over issues that contravene the shari'a."
"The Christian is Free to Worship His God in His Church, but if the Christians Make Problems for the Muslims, I Will Exterminate Them"
Q: "What solution is the EIJ suggesting [today], after the revolution?"
Shehato: "...We still espouse the old jihadi ideology that is today the ideology of Sheikh Ayman Al-Zawahiri, the late Sheikh Osama bin Laden, and Abu Muhammad Al-Maqdisi... If the revolution was meant to overthrow the tyrant Mubarak, then we have always said that all the Arab rulers, without exception, are infidels who must be killed because they do not rule according to the shari'a. They are apostate infidels, as opposed to infidels like the Jews and Christians, and anyone who doubts that they are infidels is an infidel [himself]."
Q: "But we Egyptians have never regarded the Christians as infidels. [In fact,] many of us have Christian friends even closer than our Muslim friends."
Shehato: "As a Muslim, I must support the Muslim and oppose the Christian. If there is a Christian who does me no harm, I will maintain limited contact with him. Islam [discusses] certain degrees of contact with the Christian, namely: keeping promises [that were made him], dealing honestly with him, treating him kindly, and befriending him. The first three are allowed, but the fourth [i.e., befriending the Christian] is deemed dangerous, for it contravenes the verse that says, 'O you who believe! Do not take my enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth' [Koran 60:1]. It is inconceivable that they should serve in judiciary or executive posts, for instance in the army or the police."
Q: "Are you against blowing up churches?"
Shehato: "Yes and no. The Christian is free to worship his god in his church, but if the Christians make problems for the Muslims, I will exterminate them. I am guided by the shari'a, and it stipulates that they must pay the jizya tax while in a state of humiliation..."
Q: "These positions of yours frighten us, as Egyptians."
Shehato: "I will not act [in ways] that contradict my faith just in order to please the people... We say to the Christians, convert to Islam or pay the jizya, otherwise we will fight you. The shari'a is not based on [human] logic but on divine law. That is why we oppose universal, manmade constitutions."
If the Muslims Rise to Power in Egypt, They Will Form Muslim Battalions to Enforce the Shari'a Worldwide
Q: "If you rise to power in Egypt, will you launch a campaign of Islamic conquest?"
Shehato: "Of course we will launch a campaign of Islamic conquest, throughout the world. As soon as the Muslims and Islam control Egypt and implement the shari'a [there], we will turn to the neighboring regions, [such as] Libya [to the west] and Sudan to the south. All the Muslims in the world who wish to see the shari'a implemented worldwide will join the Egyptian army in order to form Islamic battalions, whose task will be to bring about the victory of [our] faith. We hope that, with Allah's help, Egypt will be the spark [that sets off this process]..."
Q: "You said that you endorse the ideology of Osama bin Laden and Ayman Al-Zawahiri. Does this mean that your way of implementing shari'a in Egypt will be through violence and war, like their [way]?"
Shehato: "No, we will implement the shari'a through da'wa [preaching], while violence will be directed only at the infidel Arab rulers. In their case, there is no choice but to use force, though the shari'a does not call it 'violence' but 'jihad for the sake of Allah.' There is no other way... because they have power and weapons..."
Q: "How will the foreign ministry [operate] in an Islamic state?"
Shehato: "There are Muslims and there are infidels. We will have ambassadors in every country. We want to call all other countries to join Islam, and that will be the task of the ambassadors. If [the countries] refuse, there will be war. We will not tolerate mutual trade and cultural ties with non-Muslims."
"In the [Islamic] State, There will Be Only Islamic Culture"
Q: "If you rise to power, what will be your approach to tourism?"
Shehato: "There will be tourism for purposes of [medical] treatment, but the tourism sites of the pyramids, the Sphinx, and Sharm Al-Sheikh will be shut down, because my task [as a ruler] is to get people to serve Allah rather than [other] people [i.e., tourists]. No proud Muslim will ever be willing to live off tourism profits, because the tourists come [to Egypt] to drink alcohol and fornicate. [If they] want to come, they must comply with the conditions and laws of Islam. We will explain to them that, according to the shari'a, the pyramids are [the remains of] a pagan and polytheistic age."
Q: "What will be the state of art and literature in such a state?" Shehato: "In Islam, there is no such thing as art. Painting, singing, and dancing are forbidden. Therefore, in the [Islamic] state there will be nothing but Islamic culture, for I cannot teach [people] the infidel culture. As for literature, such as [the works] of Naguib Mahfouz, it is forbidden. Naguib Mahfouz was a criminal who stimulated [people's] desires and struck a severe blow to modesty. We will return to the decent culture of the Muslims and the Muslim forefathers, and to Islamic history."
Endnote:
[1] Roz Al-Yousef (Egypt), August 13, 2011.
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
Some might recall that I've been featuring Dr. Hamid's columns on my blog, with his permission.
He's a very polite person, in my experience, and very grateful. Moreover, he's extremely courageous, and I can also see why he would not take the scary final step of apostasy. There are many ex-Muslims speaking out, but Muslims like Hamid are rare. What he is saying here is HORRIFYING.
Everyone needs to listen to this man, especially in light of the post just above this one. This video needs to be transcribed and sent to everyone!
Note that when he says it's not the Koran but other texts that call for death for apostasy, he's referring to the hadiths, such as:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
I posted on Facebook a video of Muslims praying the streets of Moscow, and a couple of Muslims started making comments. One is a friendly (for now) fellow who "loves" me and wants to marry me. I suspect he's just in the "Denial" phase of the four Muslim apologetics stages:
1. Denial 2. Deflection 3. Insults 4. Threats
No. 1: Denial
Muslims will deny that various scriptures are in the Koran. When shown that they are, they will claim they are "mistranslated" and that you need to read them in Arabic. Many of them can't even read Arabic, so it's an "amusing" (hypocritical) apology they're just repeating like parrots. If you show them the side-by-side Arabic, as in the Dawood translation, they will then claim "out of context" and "misinterpretation."
The answer to the "out of context" and "misinterpretation" argument is that it is not WE who are taking these things out of context or misinterpreting them, it is Islam's most fervent proselytizers and defenders who are doing so, as they claim these scriptures represent eternal edicts. It is rabid Islamists who use these "out of context" and "misinterpreted" scriptures to kill, rape and pillage, to spread hatred and to brutalize women, etc., ad nauseam.
No. 2: Deflection
The next step after no. 1 fails to impress the potential "revert" (Muslimspeak for "convert") is to deflect away objections to Islam with handwaving dismissals and redirects to atrocities committed by others. This tactic is called the "tu quoque" or "you too!" logical fallacy. In general, Muslim apologists are trained to think that most if not all Islam critics in the West are Christians. Therefore, they assume you are a Christian and then shout, "What about the Crusades?" or other impugnation of Christianity. They'll toss in the Inquisition, bombings of abortion clinics and Timothy McVeigh for good measure.
The "blowback" theory is also used to shut up critics and to deflect off the issue: Any Muslim violence is simply a defensive response to the mindless bigotry, hatred and hostility of the "filthy kaffir" or "dirty infidel." In Islamic fundamentalism, non-Muslims are essentially considered to be subhumans governed by irrationality and mindless bigotry/hatred of outsiders - hence, the libel of "Islamophobia." Never mind that it's the Islamic texts which are full of hatred towards "the other," displaying a grotesque and rabid Infidelophobia.
The counterargument here is that you are not Christian or, if you are, you do not support these acts of Christian violence. Moreover, it needs to be pointed out that this argument is a "tu quoque" logical fallacy, aimed at deflecting away from the criticisms of Islam by pointing fingers elsewhere.
As concerns "blowback," the fact is that Islam has been aggressive against non-Muslims and "heretics" since the very beginning, despite claims and scriptures to the contrary. According to the Koran, hadiths and Islamic history, Mohammed was "hellbent," so to speak, on forcing everyone in the world to become Muslim - Islam is a proselytizing faith, the most aggressive of all, to which Christianity is second. Islam's very nature sets it against "the other," i.e., the non-Muslim, infidel or "filthy kuffar."
Quote:
"When you encounter the kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thoroughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly." Quran 47:4
The Crusades, in fact, were a response to constant Muslim aggression at the frontiers of Christendom, especially in Eastern Europe. This aggression against non-Muslims has occurred all over the world, in nations that could not possibly have been hostile to Islamists first, such as India and many other places. In addition, many Islamists consider the mere existence of non-Muslims to be hostile and an aggression to Islam; hence, they are entitled to "defend" themselves through violence until there are no more non-Muslims or those who remain are completely and utterly subjugated. The Koran is full of such commentary, impugning non-Muslims for their mere existence. Any "blowback," therefore, is justified in the opposite direction.
"Believers, do not make friends with those who are enemies of Mine and yours." Quran 60:1
No. 3: Insults
When the first steps fail to impress the critic, the next step is to insult him or her with all imaginable calumny, smear, slander and libel. Muslims will start off with generalized insults such as shouting "racist," "bigot," "Islamophobe" or "hater." They will also compare you to Hitler, even though Islam itself teaches rabid Jew hatred, there were many Muslims in Hitler's army, and many Muslim leaders today deny the Holocaust and talk about annihilating Jews and Christians. Muslim apologists will pretend that they are pitiful victims - playing the victim card is a classic Muslim apologist strategy. They will make truly racist remarks if you are a person of European ancestry, lumping you in with Nazis and assorted other (white) fascists.
If you point out the problems with these arguments, they will turn up the heat and try to find some dirt on you personally or pretend to know who you are in order to make more pointed insults. In any event, YOU are the hater because you object to hateful, bigoted, anti-woman speech and acts such as depicted in the videos of Muslim defenders here.
The defense here is, of course, to recognize that insults are one of the steps in Muslim apologetics (as they are in Christian apologetics at some point as well). Knowing that the same insults are thrown out time and again, regardless of who the person is, will help you not take them personally and to defuse them. Resist the urge to be insulting back, but you can be frank in your assessment that the person tossing out the insults is reflecting badly on his faith and acting idiotically - you will see by the example below that I pull no punches in defending myself against the insults. (By the way, insulting people can be a way of life for some, especially in the Middle East, a "cultural" difference also helpful in this instruction on how to communicate effectively with Muslim apologists.)
It must be firmly and loudly pointed out that ISLAM IS NOT A RACE. It is NOT "racist" to critique an ideology, which is what we are doing. Unlike our Islam-defender friends, we did not insult an individual. I for one am not interested in insulting or harming individuals. I critique ideologies that cause individuals to behave badly. In that way, I do not cause pain to living, breathing and feeling human beings by assailing them personally. An ideology is not a living and breathing human being who can feel pain. Those who cause pain to living, breathing human beings in defense of an ideology are truly the haters and purveyors of evil. This point cannot be emphasized enough. The fact that defenders feel the need to be insulting or physically harmful to critics of an ideology demonstrates precisely why that ideology needs to be criticized.
"Islamophobia" is a bogus term pushed by Muslim organizations to cover up Islamic atrocities with kitty litter. Anyone who uses this ridiculous smear should be shamed and shouted down. A "phobia" is by definition irrational, but our objections to Islamic ideology are QUITE rational and have to do with Islamic doctrine and history themselves, which are responsible for the deaths of some 270 million people worldwide and the ongoing terror attacks and misogyny globally. We have good reason to fear Islamic fundamentalism. Therefore, we are not irrationally "Islamophobic."
The utter failure of Muslims to recognize why non-Muslims would be concerned about Islamic doctrine, screaming epithets instead, is a major problem with establishing peace worldwide. Until they grow up and recognize their own faults, we will never have peace. The fact is that many Muslims - not a few of whom have become ex-Muslims - have recognized the real reasons for "Islamophobia": Infidel hatred and woman enslavement, etc. These Muslims and ex-Muslims are, in fact, frequently leading the criticism of Islam, and I am friendly with a number of them, including ex-radical Muslim Tawfik Hamid, who tells the truth about Islamic fundamentalists (although he has sentimental blinders on when it comes to Islam itself, which is why he remains a Muslim - that's his choice).
Despite the apologists pointing fingers in the critics' direction, the fact will remain that it is Islamic doctrine that is bigoted and hateful against non-Muslims and women.
No. 4: Threats
Naturally, when the sweet talk fails to shut up the critic, the threats will come out. These threats have become so typical that they are frequently laughed off. You can use your imagination, but here are some gems thrown at Islam critic and atheist commentator Pat Condell.
In consideration of how volatile and violent Muslim fanatics can become, it is wise to take precautions before trying to debate this subject of Islam, an increasing need. First of all, jihadis can't take down everyone, and if you don't want the entire planet to look like Saudi Arabia, Iran or Afghanistan, we will all need to start debating this subject in an intelligent, academic and calm manner. Otherwise, the bullies have won, which is the real reason for Muslim apologetics in the first place. Islamic supremacy is the order of the day within the fervent Ummah or global Muslim community, as has been stated repeatedly by so many defenders of the faith and authorities.
As concerns precautions, obviously, don't give away any personal information, unless you're Anne Barnhardt and have a pink semi-automatic rifle to defend yourself.
An Example of Debating a Muslim
Following is the exchange I had on FB in response to the Muslims in Moscow video - it may be used as an example of how to debate a Muslim. Naeem is a Pakistani Muslim in Toronto, depicted on his FB in full Islamic regalia. He's been on my FB for months, once in a while dropping a factual comment here and there in between some angry insults. Demonstrating my own "tolerance," I haven't blocked him - yet.
Acharya S: Nobody sane wants to see a bunch of men's arses in the air, including "God." Any god who would require such a thing is no one I would be interested in AT ALL.
Moreover, banging your head on the ground repeatedly causes brain damage. Again, what kind of god would require such idiotic behavior?
This occupation of public streets is not a welcome, joyous expression of devotion to any god I would follow - it is a pushy, arrogant and megalomaniacal show of strength to intimidate the filthy kuffar.
Please stop kidding yourselves - and please join us in the enlightenment beyond such base perceptions of divinity. Instead of picking through bags of rubbish for seeds, why not get a bag of seeds?
Naeem Muhammad: If you think Muslims can block streets in Moscow without the permission of the authorities then you must be on drugs or you don't know how Russians works. And thanks for the pseudo scholarly bullshit you shit out every time, which makes it more and more clear about your ignorance. Banging head on the ground, are you high? Who bangs heads? I though you were sane enough to know the different btw banging and placing head on the ground.
You are just a bigot and a closet hitler who if given power will perpetrate the worst violence against people of all faith.
Acharya S: Thanks, Naeem, for the loving display of Muslim moderation! Playing the Hitler card in such a way is a sign of an utter lack of intelligence and integrity. Moreover, if there are any "little Hitlers" running around, it would be Muslim fanatics full of Jew hatred, like those who were involved with Hitler during World War II:
The Koran and hadiths are full of Jew hatred, such as the following:
"Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief" "Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers." "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" Etc., ad nauseam
This Jew hatred has caused millions of Muslims to call for the annihilation of Jews and Israel - sounds quite Hitleresque to me. On the other hand, I have never done any such thing, so you are guilty of the highest form of libel. SHAME ON YOU.
From your constant ridiculous remarks, you seem not to know ANYTHING about Islam, which itself is highly BIGOTED and MISOGYNISTIC. So, instead of addressing our concerns about the hundreds of millions killed and enslaved in the name of Islam over the past 1,400 years, you are going to insult us further - that's what Islam does to you, obviously, destroying your humanity.
You are clueless as to the huge "raisins" on the heads of the most devout followers of Islam, who most assuredly DO bang their heads on the floor/ground repeatedly, day after day, year after year? In fact, the bigger the "raisin," the greater the piety:
"A prayer bump or prayer scar, also known as a zabiba/zebiba/zebibah ('raisin' in Arabic), is a mark on the forehead of a Muslim"
I'm sorry, but your infantile insults - so typical of Muslim fanatics - will not suffice to deflect the facts away.
Instead of viciously attacking individuals whom you don't even know - which is what your cultic beliefs have caused you to do - perhaps you would like to study the subject of Islam beyond the pabulum you've allowed yourself to swallow? You really do NOT need to defend this infidel-hating, woman-enslaving cult - it is NOT who you are.
Here the stages of Muslim apologetics:
1. Denial 2. Deflection 3. Insults 4. Threats
You are at no. 3 - will you escalate to no. 4? Instead, you could join the human race beyond this violent and divisive cultic brainwashing - you would be most welcome.
Acharya S: By the way, Naeem, I see you are from Pakistan - are you aware at all of what that part of the world was like before violent fanatics invaded, slaughtered and raped your ancestors into Islamic doctrine?
That area of the world was largely Buddhist and Hindu before the invasion of Arab ideology - by comparison these religions are VERY peaceful and tolerant. They are not fanatically monotheistic, with adherents running around FORCING others through insults and violence into them.
You would do best if you threw off the Arab yoke and returned to the pre-Islamic roots of your ancestors. Instead of attacking individuals whom you don't even know, over an alien ideology that did not even originate with your people, you would regain your humanity.
I see a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" here with the fervent Pakistani defense of an invader cult that has enslaved the people. It's akin to black Americans fervently defending Christianity, which has enslaved their bodies and minds. You CAN throw off the yoke!
Be sure to watch these videos, just in case you have any doubts as to why a non-Muslim would object to the BIGOTRY AND HATRED OF ISLAM:
Your utter lack of attempting to understand why non-Muslims wouldn't like Islam, and instead trying to insult us into accepting it, merely reflects how this fanaticism has destroyed your humanity.
For the past 1,400 years, Islam has declared war on non-Muslims, to the tune of some 270 MILLION killed -
None of this aggression, hostility, violence and BIGOTRY bothers you at all - instead, you are going to attack others whom you don't even know, adding insult to injury. Again, that's what religious fanaticism has done to your soul. And again, you CAN free yourself.
Instead of ranting and raging hatefully at individuals whom you don't know in the least, you really could read my book -
Naeem Muhammad: TSK TSK TSK! Hitler had Muslim legions and he also had Muslims fighting against him in the British Army, I know people who did that. Ofcourse your lob sided history doesnt allow you to say that. Like Muslim are fighting in and against Syrian and Libyan Army. Like they fight for and against American army.
Jews lived the best under Muslims even accepted by Jewish historians. Anyone disputing that is simply denying the consensus of scholars. In fact Ben gurion the 1st head of Israel said "the golden era of our diaspora was Muslim spain". Jews willingly immigrated to Ottoman empire when Spain was invaded that is a historical fact, ofcourse you never studied history . Your race was the worst against Jews, so try not telling me what we did.
I aint no apologist, i tell you what it is. You are a hater period! little wonder Christians put heretics down.
Acharya S: Also, I truly do not understand how an informed person with a SOUL can possibly believe in and follow a man depicted in the Islamic "holy" text and other religious books as having done the following:
1. Killed hundreds, either by his own hand or that of his followers 2. Inspired millions more deaths over the past 1,400 years 3. Taken sex slaves 4. Married a six-year-old girl and had sex with her when she was nine, etc.
"Lord...Give us victory over the unbelievers." Quran 2:286
"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." Quran 8:12
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Quran 9:5
"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Quran 9:73
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Quran 9:123
"...you may marry other women who seem good to you: two, three, or four of them. But if you fear that you cannot maintain equality among them marry one only or any slave-girls you may own." Quran 4:3
"The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)." Sahih Bukhari 7.62.88, 7.62.64
How can someone with a conscience possibly believe such an individual was a "prophet of God?" And what misery has this "prophet's" example brought to the world? How can you follow such a sickening character?
No, you have NO right to be calling others such names, while mindlessly following such a depraved person.
Acharya S: "Jews lived the best under Muslims even accepted by Jewish historians."
Sorry, but a few "sparkling" moments in INFIDEL lands will not suffice to overturn the intense Jew hatred of the Islamic world that has led to the virtual disappearance of Jews from Muslim lands. How many Jews now live in the Muslim Middle Eastern countries?
All you are doing is tossing out the standard Muslim apologies and canards. Again, why are you defending this Arab cult that invaded your ancestors' lands and killed and raped them?
"Your race was the worst against Jews, so try not telling me what we did."
What is "my" race? You don't know what my genetics are - again, SHAME ON YOU. I have nothing whatsoever to do with Jews and Germany, if that's what you're implying with your disgusting calumny - I'm not even of German extract.
Who are "we" in your statement? Why do you lump yourself in with others for whom you are not personally responsible? That's a serious flaw in logic produced by cultic brainwashing. I don't belong to any cult, group or organization that has anything remotely to do with your libel. I don't identify myself with any "race" or ethnicity that has committed any atrocities against anyone.
Your remarks are frankly RACIST. By the way, Islam isn't a race, and I notice you haven't played that idiotic card - yet.
"I aint no apologist, i tell you what it is. You are a hater period! little wonder Christians put heretics down."
I'm sorry, but you most certainly ARE an apologist, of the most virulent kind, coming into someone's FB space whom you don't know in the least and spewing insults and HATE SPEECH, making personal attacks. You are completely unable to differentiate the criticism of an IDEOLOGY from a personal attack - again, that's what religious fanaticism has done to you.
I am criticizing an IDEOLOGY that has enslaved, murdered and raped YOUR ancestors, Naeem, and you are going to attack me personally with all manner of falsehoods and insults? Again, when do you escalate to no. 4 of the Muslim apologist steps, threats of violence?
How charming of you to encourage genocide/murder with your remarks about "putting heretics down." Thank you for verifying your bloodthirsty fanaticism. It seems you HAVE just escalated to no. 4.
Acharya S: It's obvious why Islamists immediately accuse others of mindless bigotry and hatred, instead of trying to understand WHY non-Muslims object to Islam - because THEY (Islamists) are taught mindless bigotry and hatred, so they assume others are engaging in it.
And that's precisely the violent and hateful doctrine we are objecting to in the first place: To wit, non-Muslims are "filthy kuffār."
_________________ Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:
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. Your race was the worst against Jews, so try not telling me what we did.