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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Here's the new Youtube account for Stellar House Publishing videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/StellarHouse1

Be sure to subscribe and befriend us! 8)

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The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Nice, I see Xoroaster has subscribed. Good work. I wonder if he'll take up reading through A's books now.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Absolutely! :D

I've avoided almost all secondary scholarship up until now, mainly to avoid corruption of whatever the heck I was doing.

Now, I think I have an extremely strong model that can hold up on its own and defend itself. The jump from where I'm at, to where A is at, isn't much of a leap.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Ah cool. Though beware, getting into Acharya's stuff brings on the haters, ones you didn't already have before.

Given your current interests, I suppose the book that would be best to begin with is perhaps "Who Was Jesus?", and then if you want to get into the 'pagan origins' stuff she is better known for, I'd definitely recommend Christ In Egypt first, that is, until the 2nd edition Christ Conspiracy gets released.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Welcome to the party Xoroaster 8)

I'm going through Xoroaster's video playlists trying figure out the best way to post them for discussion in the most appropriate forum sections. Here's my first thoughts ... see what you think.

* Each of these in their own thread in 'The Historicity of the Bible' section:

Bible Dating Series
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xoroaster#g ... E1EDD66E4A

Book of Revelation
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xoroaster#g ... D746F648CF

Book of Daniel
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xoroaster#g ... 5C28B2AAD8

* Now, the series 'From Zero to Eclipse' throws me off a bit because it starts out about Revelation but, on the last three videos on Jesus I feel like putting them into the 'Archaeology, Archaeoastronomy and Astronomy' section:

"The Sign of Jesus" - 2.0 Jesus Eclipse

"Jesus is the Light" - 3.0 Jesus Eclipse

From Zero to Jesus - Summary to Date - Jesus Eclipse 4.0

* These would go into the 'Comparative Religion' section:

On Christianity 1.0: Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLGcnJz7_8

On Christianity 2.0: Religious Connectivity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67p2_g7pyg8

On Christianity 3.0 (Catholicism)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIuJbz_dLAs

* Early Church Fathers could almost go into the 'Extrabiblical Texts' section.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xoroaster#g ... 80D39C755D

* Modern Biblical Scholarship Series could go into 'The Historicity of the Bible' section or the 'Extrabiblical Texts' section?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xoroaster#g ... 59DB690FF0

Any thoughts or suggestions?

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:19 pm 
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My series have been a complete nightmare on trying to get them into any kind of order. And the worst part of all of my series, is that they were all based in Null Hypothesis. So, inaccuracies are all over the place, with later info making the original videos weaker.

I have literally no suggestions on those. I keep plugging Revelation first, however, that series is so old now that there are a lot of small errors that have to be cleaned up. It's still basically stable, but its also considerably out of date.

I could reconstruct that series. I'm at a pause now, trying to figure out what is next. I think, for the time, I'm probably going to shift into the Early Church series and attempt to classify religious texts. I'm staying frosty on the whole book concept for now, unfortunately that wipes out approximately 90% of everything I had planned to go into and everything I've done so far. I'm scrambling for other ideas. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:54 am 
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Hey Xoroaster, Let's start off with the Daniel and Revelation series. I thought that you did a good job of pointing out what the real historical intent of the writers seems to be. Daniel makes much more sense when viewed as written looking back with the historical details getting foggy and less accurate the further back to the Babylonian Empire the writer sought out. I also like how you pulled the historical data out of Revelation. What exactly have you found wrong with the Daniel and Revelation series that you see as needing correction?

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Daniel wasn't too bad. Though I over-exaggerated the problem of "Darius the Mede." The only reason why that is an issue for me, if I remember correctly, Herodotus calls the Persians "Medes." So the understanding of the Daniel author was probably more in line with the Greeks. It's small technically, though Daniel didn't yield any real surprises. Which was a bummer, because I'd just gotten out of Revelation and was really hoping for gold. I was a bit too hopeful going into Daniel. :D

My biggest problem in Revelation was it took me about four videos to figure out that I was using an incorrect number. And also, it took me three videos to figure out who the "eighth king" of Revelation 17 was. So, there was quite a bit of unsubstantiated speculation in the first few videos. Otherwise, it turned out fairly good. Millennialism, my conclusion on that was not good. My conclusion was a "plausible" late interpretation of events from 193 to 197, but I don't think that was the initial intent. Other stuff is just minor details that were overlooked. Simple things like calling Hyades a "constellation" rather than a "cluster." Simple fixes. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:28 pm 
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One thing is that you start off the introduction to Revelation by pointing out that the writers thought of time in more of a cyclic model rather than the linear model that we're familiar with now. And that it would be best to approach the text from their perspective and not a modern one. So true.

And in all of this there's a gold nugget near the end of Revelation (where you blanket termed "Dogma") that never made any direct mention in the series. The 12 jewels of the New City are given according to which jewel represents which constellation of the zodiac. In this rendering the writer describes the 12 signs of the zodiac in reverse order from Pisces to Aries - the precession of the equinoxes. So the actual cyclic time model in question is given out near the end of the text for initiates of the mysteries or what-have-you to see and recognize. It opens up the meaning of the entire text. And the rest of the text leading into the grand finale also uses symbolism of the zodiac and of precession which becomes obvious as well.

So to put it all together I'd say that you were on the right track by assuming that all of this history about the Caesars and persecution was written down according to the astronomical time period simply because there's a sense of perhaps trying to warn future generations of 'history repeating itself.' The writers were concerned with the Platonic Great Year cycle of time. And the book of Revelation appears to stem from previous Egyptian and Zoroastrian astromythological dramas, while conforming to a revised Judaized and Christianized telling of the old drama of the heavens:

Quote:
The Book of Revelation is Egyptian and Zoroastrian

"One can find certain allegorical place names such as "Jerusalem" and "Israel" in the New Testament Book of Revelation. Gerald Massey has stated that Revelation, rather than having been written by any apostle called John during the 1st century AD/CE, represents a very ancient text that dates to the beginning of this era of history, i.e. possibly as early as 4,000 years ago.204 Massey also asserts that Revelation relates the Mithraic legend of Zarathustra/Zoroaster.205 Dr. Hilton Hotema says of this mysterious book, which has baffled mankind for centuries: "It is expressed in terms of creative phenomena; its hero is not Jesus but the Sun of the Universe, its heroine is the Moon; and all its other characters are Planets, Stars and Constellations; while its stage-setting comprises the Sky, the Earth, the Rivers and the Sea."206

The word Israel itself, far from being a Jewish appellation, may come from the combination of three different reigning deities: Isis, the Earth Mother Goddess revered throughout the ancient world; Ra, the Egyptian sun god; and El, the Semitic deity passed down in form as Saturn.207 El was one of the earliest names for the god of the ancient Hebrews (whence Emmanu-El, Micha-El, Gabri-El, Samu-El, etc.) and his worship is reflected in the fact that the Jews still consider Saturday as "God's Day."208

Indeed, that the Christians worship on Sunday betrays the genuine origins of their god and godman. Their "savior" is actually the sun, which is the "Light of the world that every eye can see." The sun has been viewed consistently throughout history as the savior of mankind for reasons that are obvious. Without the sun, the planet would scarcely last one day. So important was the sun to the ancients that they composed a "Sun Book," or "Helio Biblia," which became the "Holy Bible."209"

- Origins of Christianity, page 22


Millennialism actually stems from Egyptian myth as well with the "House of a Thousand Years." It's mentioned in Christ in Egypt. What I've found interesting is how all of this corresponds to your "Septuagint Priority Hypothesis." We have a clear connection between Egypt, the Greeks, and the Jews which eventually resulted in the creation of Christianity. There's an entire chapter in CiE called "The Alexandrian Roots of Christianity" which I'm sure you'll find very interesting and helpful if you get around to reading it.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:11 pm 
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That's right, I shut down at basically 19-20, and threw the rest under the heading of "dogma." That's very interesting. I do remember looking at those "twelve gates" and thinking, "there's something here and I don't know exactly what it is." I figured it had something to do with the months/zodiac/tribes, but I had virtually nothing at the time that would support it.

Since going through Revelation, I came across Enoch's Cosmology and the "four winds." The Jewish Zodiac, which really kind of threw me. Theophilus "star mystery", and I haven't even begun to touch Babylonian or Egyptian astronomy. I've read some of Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos and Almagest, but I need to go a little farther back in time. Before Enoch and Ptolemy.

One thing, that was absolutely unexpected for me going in, was a ton of Astrology. I'm a minor fan of Astronomy, and Astrology is purely foreign to me. I'm more of a history/theology guy. So it really threw me especially at first. It took a while for me to work out the details on how the Revelation Allegories fit into the early theology.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Thor

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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Millennialism actually stems from Egyptian myth as well with the "House of a Thousand Years." It's mentioned in Christ in Egypt. What I've found interesting is how all of this corresponds to your "Septuagint Priority Hypothesis." We have a clear connection between Egypt, the Greeks, and the Jews which eventually resulted in the creation of Christianity. There's an entire chapter in CiE called "The Alexandrian Roots of Christianity" which I'm sure you'll find very interesting and helpful if you get around to reading it.


You know, one thing keep occurring to me while reading through CIE, is that there are very ancient traditions, and then Platonism, and then something "new". What is curious about that, to me, is all of the Mystery cults. What I'm seeing, in first and second century, is way too many similar Mystery cults. It makes me wonder if the Ancient Egyptian, Greek, Jewish, Persian, and Babylonian traditions, weren't just completely smashed together by Platonism, and then spun off into little cults. Like Mithraism for example. Mithraism, might actually be a bastardized version of a Gnostic Zoroastrianism. Like Christianity to Gnostic Judaism.

It is curious that the Egyptian theology does seem to be very similar to the later Christian theology. It is also curious that the Christian theology has plenty of competition that also look similar in its own time. like Mithras, Isis, Dionysus. I'm beginning to the Plato is a problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:44 pm 
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Ok, so you're reading CiE now. Good deal. If you get into the chapter in question there's a lot of lines drawn between Philo of Alexandria's Platonic thought and then Philo's influence on the creation of Christianity, especial the Platonic "Logos" theology.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:41 am 
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Thor

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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Ok, so you're reading CiE now. Good deal. If you get into the chapter in question there's a lot of lines drawn between Philo of Alexandria's Platonic thought and then Philo's influence on the creation of Christianity, especial the Platonic "Logos" theology.


Oh yeah, that was one of the first chapters I read. Then I began reading through the rest of the book.

I've been working on a book that will present theological constructs. Philo, Plato, Revelation, and some other Gnostic texts, are the foundation texts for literally everything in my work at this point. In video, I only touch the Gnostic concepts lightly. I was waiting for certain questions to be answered.

But once those questions were answered, the whole thing fell in line. From Plato/Philo, all the way to Irenaeus, and eventually 4th century Catholicism.

My work has been mostly been from a position of Null Hypothesis. Exploring propositions that are capable of being proven True or False. For a long time, I had way too many questions, and not enough answers. Once I found the key to connecting the late authors to the early authors, everything was answered very quickly.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:03 am 
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I did the same. I went straight to the Alexandrian Hypothesis and then read through the whole bookl afterward. I've been pretty interested in Alexandria's role in both the bible OT and NT writing periods. There was a guy posting here a while back who was convinced that the Septuagint is the original bible and that any Hebrew version was written later. Technically it's the oldest extant version, but even still it seems odd at first to think that there was no Hebrew bible any earlier that was eventually translated to Greek. But he was convinced that the Greek was the original. He offered no elaborate Septuagint Priority Hypthosis (SPH) in the clear terms that you have provided in video, but it was a hell of an insight on his part nontheless.

You struck another nerve with me when you brought up Berossos in the video series. Years ago I read through Campbell talking about an interesting discovery he'd stumbled into while comparing mythologies. He was pointing out that there's evidence from the bible itself which reveals how the older Babylonian and Vedic based flood myths were used in order to come up with the biblical account:
Quote:
"The Inner Reaches of Outer Space: Metaphor as Myth and as Religion"

P. 9-12

"For example, in the Hindu sacred epics...the number of years reckoned to the present cycle of time, the so-called Kali Yuga, is 432,000; the number reckoned to the "great cycle", within this Yuga falls is 4,320,000. But then reading one day in the Icelandic Eddas, I discovered that in Othin's warrior hall, there were 540 doors, through each of which, on the "Day of The Wolf" (that is to say at the end of the present cycle of time), there would pass 800 divine warriors to engage the antigods in a mutual battle of annihilation. 800 x 540 = 432,000.

...In Babylon, I then recalled, there had been a Chaldean priest, Berossos, who c. 280 BCE., had rendered into Greek an account of the history and mythology of Babylonia, wherein it was told that between the rise of the first city, Kish, and the coming of the Babylonian mythological flood (from which that of the bible is taken), there elapsed 432,000 years, during which antediluvian era, ten kings reigned. Very long lives! Longer even than Methuselah's (Genesis 5:27), which had been of 969.

So I turned to the Old Testament (Genesis 5) and counting the number of antediluvian patriarchs, Adam to Noah, discovered, of course, that they were ten. How many years? Adam was 130 years old when he begat Seth, who was 105 when he begat Enosh, and so on, to Noah, who was 600 years old when the flood came: to a grand total, from the first day of Adams creation to the first drop of rain of Noah's flood, of 1,656 years. Any relation to 432,000? ...it was shown that in 1,656 years there are 86,400 seven-day weeks. 86,400 divided by 2 equals 43,200.


And so it appears that in the book of Genesis there are two contrary theologies represented in relation to the deluge. One is the old tribal, popular tale of a willful, personal creator god, who saw that "the wickedness of man was great in the earth..." (Genesis 5:6-7). The other idea, which is in fundamental contrast, is that of the disguised number, 86,400, which is a deeply hidden reference to the Gentile, Sumero-Babylonian, mathmatical cosmology of ever-revolving cycles of impersonal time, with whole universes and their populations coming into being, flowering for a season of 43,200 (432,000 or 4,320,000) years, dissolving back into the cosmic mother-sea to rest for an equal amount of years before returning, and so again, and again, and again.

It is to be noticed, by the way, that 1+6+5+6=18, which is twice 9, while 4+3+2=9: 9 being associated with the goddess mother of the world and it's gods. In India the number of recited names in a litany of this goddess is 108. 1+0+8= 9, while 108 X 4 = 432.

...It is strange that in our history books the discovery of the precession of the equinoxes should be attributed to Hipparchus, second century BC., when the magic number 432 (which when multiplied by 60 produces 25,920) was already employed in the reckoning of major cycles of time before that century.


I recalled this immediately while watching your videos establishing the SPH. It's all right there in the OT plain as day. And it makes so much sense too. All together it looks like the Greeks pressed the Jews for a mythology and they responded by getting into the records @ Alexandria and pulling from a variety of myths ranging from the near east to far east. The Brahma / Abram and Saraiswati / Sarai stands out especially. But as stated above it really looks like some writers sat down and came up with the Patriachal lineage from reading through Berossos. And you're SPH is basically an extension and an advancement to what Campbell stumbled across by chance.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
I recalled this immediately while watching your videos establishing the SPH. It's all right there in the OT plain as day. And it makes so much sense too. All together it looks like the Greeks pressed the Jews for a mythology and they responded by getting into the records @ Alexandria and pulling from a variety of myths ranging from the near east to far east. The Brahma / Abram and Saraiswati / Sarai stands out especially. But as stated above it really looks like some writers sat down and came up with the Patriachal lineage from reading through Berossos. And you're SPH is basically an extension and an advancement to what Campbell stumbled across by chance.


That Septuagint Priority, got me all kinds of interesting questions. I think the Gmirkin Model of Berossus and Manetho makes a lot of sense. It certainly seems plausible at least for the Penteteuch. From that video, people had all kinds of questions on Isaiah. I could not detect any reason for Isaiah being a real person. Especially after going through Daniel. Isaiah simply isn't detailed enough. Of course, that's mostly speculative. So, I've left that nebulous for now. And then the Ezra Tradition, doesn't strengthen DH at all.

The response to the potential for Septuagint Priority was a bit comical. Most people were happy with it, but for some, even Atheists, it was almost like saying something "heretical." It was quite funny in hindsight.


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