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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:29 am 
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Jesus

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:09 am
Posts: 18
Possible zodiac relation on Finnish folklores

"According to 18th century Finnish folklore-collector Kristfrid Ganander, Kaleva had 12 sons in total which included such heroes as Väinämöinen, Ilmarinen and Hiisi."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevi_(mythology)

Mythologia fennica - Christfrid Ganander - Sons of Kalewa (in swedish):

http://books.google.fi/books/reader?id= ... g=GBS.PA29

National saga of Finland contains a lot of mentions about sun, moon, stars and constellations, especially Great Bear, but probably a lot of others, if myths are consistently opened via stellar interpretation.

Introduction to the Kalevala: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/kvintro.htm

Passages from Kalevala and its star interlinkings:

"Free me, Moon, and Sun, release me!
Thou, Great Bear, do ever guide me,
Lead a man here through strange doors,
Through these unfamiliar gates.
Release me from this narrow nest,
From this shut-in dwelling place!
Child of mankind to the open
To behold the moon in heaven
and to wonder at the daylight,
Get to know the Great Bear's grandeur
Or just to stare up at the stars!"

http://www.edj.net/mc2012/friberg.htm

"Thou canst surely fly to heaven,
To the seventh of the heavens,
O'er the Moon, beneath the sunshine,
Through the dim and distant starlight.
On the first day, flying upward,
Thou wilt near the Moon in heaven,
Fan the brow of Kootamoinen;
On the second thou canst rest thee
On the shoulders of Otava;
On the third day, flying higher,
Rest upon the seven starlets,
On the heads of Hetewanè;
Short the journey that is left thee,
Inconsiderable the distance
To the home of mighty Ukko,
To the dwellings of the blessed."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/kvrune15.htm

Otava = Great Bear, seven star constellation
Kootamoinen = Moon (light)
Ukko = God

"Let the Great Bear be thy keeper
Often go thou and consult them,
Call upon the Moon for counsel,
Ask the Bear for ancient wisdom,
From the stars divine thy future;
When the Great Bear faces southward,
When his tail is pointing northward,
This is time to break with slumber,
Seek for fire within the ashes,
Place a spark upon the tinder,
Blow the fire through all the fuel."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/kvrune23.htm

The brand new book called "Kalevala - Guide to the stars" is the first comprehensive attempt to interpret Kalevala by stars. Unfortunately its only in Finnish, but some pictures from the book are available from: http://www.hereticum.com/apps/photos/al ... d=10109114

Translated homepage: http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... cum.com%2F

Pronounciation of the finnish words: http://www.edj.net/mc2012/pronun.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:58 am 
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Thor

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 43
Note: the author is not a folklore scholar. I've actually bumped into him once briefly, didn't have time to talk about the subject, though.
With Kalevala you have to remember it was constructed by Lönnrot and you have to know the background, which parts were made up by him and which are from original sources. We can view Lönnrot as a DJ and Kalevala as his selection of tunes, from a vast amount of material available.

I've been meaning to post about the Lemminkäinen-Osiris connection. I have a book from 1957 by Finnish folklorist Iivar Kemppinen, which deals with the subject. I could write a summary of the book as it is quite thin.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:35 am 
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Those interested in the cosmic imagery in the Kalevala should read Hamlet's Mill by Santillana and Von Dechend. The rhythm of the Kalevala is the same as Longfellow's Hiawatha. The Finnish cosmic mill, the Sampo, is a symbol of precession of the equinox, apparently going back to Samson in the Bible and perhaps to even earlier shamanic traditions. Shakespeare continued the theme obliquely - saying 'there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet's_Mill

Full Text http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hamle ... etmill.htm

Hamlet's Mill wrote:
Chapter 2
Amlodhi (Hamlet) was identified, in the crude and vivid imagery of the Norse, by the ownership of a fabled mill which, in his own time, ground out peace and plenty. Later, in decaying times, it ground out salt; and now finally, having landed at the bottom of the sea, it is grinding rock and sand, creating a vast whirlpool, the Maelstrom (i.e., the grinding stream, from the verb mala, "to grind"), which is supposed to be a way to the land of the dead. This imagery stands, as the evidence develops, for an astronomical process, the secular shifting of the sun through the signs of the zodiac which determines world-ages, each numbering thousands of years. Each age brings a World Era, a Twilight of the Gods. Great structures collapse; pillars topple which supported the great fabric; floods and cataclysms herald the shaping of a new world.


Quote:
Chapter 7
The main sequence is built around the forging and the conquest of a great mill, called the Sampo
Comparetti's studies have shown that the Sampo adventure is a distinct unit (like Odysseus' voyage to the underworld), "a mythic formation which has remained without any action that Can be narrated" and which was then fitted more or less coherently into the rest of the tradition. [n2 D. Comparetti, The Traditional Poetry of the Finns (1898).]. Folk legend has lost its meaning, and treats the Sampo as some vague magic dispenser of bounty, a kind of Cornucopia, but the original story is quite definite.

Vainamoinen, "sage and truthful," conjurer of highest standing, is cast upon the shore of Pohjola much as Odysseus lands on Skyra after his shipwreck. He is received hospitably by Louhi, the Mistress (also called the Whore) of Pohjola, who asks him to build for her the Sampo, without explanation. He tells her that only Ilmarinen, the primeval smith, can do it, so she sends Vainamoinen home on a ship to fetch him. Ilmarinen, who addresses his "brother" and boon companion rather flippantly as a liar and a vain chatterer, is not interested in the prospect, so Vainamoinen, ancient of days and wise among the wise, has recourse to an unworthy trick. He lures the smith with a story of a tall pine, which, he says, is growing

Near where Osmo's field is bordered.
On the crown the moon is shining,
In the boughs the Bear is resting.

Ilmarinen does not believe him; they both go there, to the edge of Osmo's field,

Then the smith his steps arrested,
In amazement at the pine-tree,
With the Great Bear in the branches,
And the moon upon its summit.

Ilmarinen promptly climbs up the tree to grasp the stars.

99

Then the aged Vainamoinen,
Lifted up his voice in singing:
"Awake, oh Wind, oh Whirlwind
Rage with great rage, oh heavens,
Within thy boat, Wind, place him
Within thy ship, oh east wind
With all thy swiftness sweep him
To Pohjola the gloomy."

Then the smith, e'en Ilmarinen
Journeyed fortb, and hurried onwards,
On the tempest forth he floated,
On the pathway of tbe breezes,
Over moon, and under sunray,
On the shoulders of the Great Bear
Till be reached the balls of Pohja,
Baths of Sariola tbe gloomy


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:16 am 
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Thor

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 43
Orientation of the northern gate of the Goseck Neolithic rondel by Marianna Ridderstad

Quote:
The “pole star” or the “nail star”, being attached to the head of the sky-supporting
“world pillar”, holds a strong position in the ancient beliefs of many North-Eurasian
people (see Setälä 1932; Eliade 1987; Hultkrantz 1996 and refs. therein). According to
Setälä (1932:539-41, 547, 560), the “nail” was usually described as being made of iron,
but in the Finnish and Estonian mythology, it is also described as “golden”, which
probably is the older epithet of these two. Not only the nail, but also the whole pillar was
described as being made of iron, gold, or copper by many North-Eurasian peoples.

There are historical accounts that both the North-European Germanic tribes and
the Samí had, in their houses and shrines, sacred wooden columns, which had nails
attached to the top of them (Setälä 1932:537-48). In Germany, Scandinavia and Lapland,
the wooden columns in the temples and outdoor shrines represented the world pillar that
supports the sky. The nails of the Vikings were called “the nails of gods” or “the world
nails”, whereas the Samí nails were more clearly related to the pole star, which was, and
still is, called boahenavlle, “the nail of the bottom” or “the nail of the north”. The sky
was seen as a giant concave “lid”, which was attached to the sky pillar with the nail at its
bottom. This worldview is also seen in the ancient Finnish name of the sky, kirjokansi,
“the embroidered lid”. The lid was supported by sammas or sampo, the metal world
pillar, which had a golden nail atop of it.

Parpola (2004) suggested that the Finnish and Estonian word sampo for the world
pillar, around which the sky revolves, and which has the “nail star” atop of it, is of Proto-
Indo-European origin from 3000-2000 BCE. At this time, the pole star was Thuban (
Draconis), which had moved closer than Edasich to the north celestial pole around 3900
BCE. The North-Eurasian concept of the world pillar as a revolving entity could thus
have originated with the Proto-Indo-Europeans using the early chariot wheel, which was
invented in 4000-3000 BCE. The North-Eurasian distribution of the “pole star” –myth
also points towards a common origin.

However, the myth of a world pillar without the metal “nail” atop of it is probably
much older than 4000 BCE. As it is also encountered among some Native American
tribes (Hultkrantz 1996), it is probably of ancient Paleolithic origin.


I have to say there are multiple levels of meaning in Sampo. It might also refer to an entheogen like the fly agaric mushroom, the fruit of the world tree.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Hercules

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:46 am
Posts: 79
I, too, was going to recommend Hamlet's Mill, which is available free online (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hamle ... etmill.htm), for further elaboration on the Kalevala.

This book is very deep and difficult to read not only because of so much obscure mythology, but also because of structure. It was roundly dismissed on its publication, but similar to Allegro's work, was actually ahead of its time. I recommend it for those not afraid of a challenging read.

Its a good work to know about and inspired me to investigate and write a small composition on the story of Samson. Samson and Sampo share an esoteric meaning and may derive from the same root word according to authors de Santillana and von Dechend.

This simple tale, often only promoted in children's Heros of the Bible type books, is a good foothold into the subject of solar myth and the precession of the equinox as found in the Bible.

_________________
I am the Wind that blows over the Sea;
I am the Wave of the Deep;
I am the Bull of the Seven Battles;
I am the Eagle upon the rock;
I am a Tear of the Sun;


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