"Previously I have interviewed Frank Zindler, Richard Carrier, David Fitzgerald and Robert Price, all of whom are 'mythicists'; they don't think there was ever anyone alive whom we could recognize as either Jesus or Moses. Of the lot of them, I would have thought that Price was the foremost expert, but he referred me to D.M. Murdock, also known as Acharya S, author of 'Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver'." - Aron Ra
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm Posts: 5198 Location: 3rd rock from the sun
The Ra Men podcast EP10 - Did Moses Exist? with D.M. Murdock
At 4 minutes "...In recent months or over the last year or so I have interviewed Frank Zindler and Richard Carrier and David Fitzgerald and Robert Price all on the issue of mythicism ... when I spoke to these people I asked for their expertise collectively and what I got, especially from Fitzgerald and Robert Price, was that we should be speaking to tonights guest D.M. Murdock, author of 'Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver'." - Aron Ra
21:45 to 30 Discussion of Zeitgeist part 1:
Primary sources and scholar commentary on them support ZG1:
Sourcebook for Zeitgeist part 1, includes transcript, images, sources and citations.
Back to the subject of Moses and Murdock's Moses book at 30 minutes:
30 minutes "Yes, you do have a whole large volume of sources that you were drawing from. I was very impressed with all the citations that you've got throughout that book ... I was very impressed by the volume of research in that book..." [Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver]
"We've been talking about Moses mythicism because I had people tell me that Moses is a confirmed historic character and they are actually trying to teach that Moses founded the American Constitution.
"In Texas history books, and I'm not kidding about this, tomorrow (Nov 21 2014) there's going to be a vote where they're going to determine whether they're going to adopt new text books and we have been now classified as the "Moses Deniers." - Aron Ra
31:40 "Well, you've got your ammo then that's for sure. You can't have much more of a Moses mythicist book than mine." - Acharya S/Murdock
Aron Ra responds: "I agree."
"AUSTIN — Did Moses influence the Founding Fathers?":
36:50 "The first part of my book dissects the so-called historicity and then the second half of it deals with where the myth actually comes from" ... 1,800 citations drawing from 20 languages - Murdock/Acharya S
Acharya discusses: "texts and words in Akkadian, Arabic, Assyrian, Babylonian, Canaanite, Phoenician, Ugaritic and other Semitic languages, along with Egyptian, Sumerian, Vedic and Sanskrit" and more.
37:45 "This is an impressive piece of work. It's definitive." - Aron Ra
38 minutes: Where did the concept for the Exodus come from?
Acharya S mentioned the Song of the Sea so, I will provide relevant comments and links for a brief explanation and for further reading but, of course, the book, 'Did Moses Exist?' offers far more details.
The Song of the Sea
"The Song of the Sea at Exodus 15:1b-18, which appears to be a reworking of a Canaanite text. Scholars of the Ugaritic texts in particular have found many important parallels - some almost word-for-word - between these Canaanite writings and the Hebrew Bible. The Ugaritic texts from Ras Shamra date to 14th to 12th centuries BCE." "I'm convinced that the Song of the Sea has to do with the Baal cycle, being reworked at an earlier age than the Moses story, since it is Yahweh doing the miracles, and Moses is only mentioned in the evidently interpolated Exodus 15:1a." http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/vie ... 312#p28312
"...there is no question that the Jews used Canaanite and Babylonian texts. We have writings from Ugarit that are paralleled nearly verbatim in the Bible. Moreover, the Jews were identified in the book of Judith as "Chaldeans," i.e., Babylonians/Amorites. The story of Moses is based significantly on the Epic of Gilgamesh, which began as a Sumerian text but which was reworked by the Babylonians for some 1,500 years." http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/vie ... 330#p28330
"A full Baal study would require a monograph, of course, but here is a quote from Christian theologian and Bible studies professor Dr. Brian D. Russell, in his book The Song of the Sea (Peter Lang, 2007, pp. 41-42), speaking of the Baal cycle and the god's victory over Yamm, the sea monster..."
...the biblical prophet Ezekiel (29:3) refers to "Pharaoh king of Egypt" as "the great dragon that lies in the midst of his streams," using the same term of תנין tanniyn, while the LXX employs the word δράκων drakon. Thus, the Bible identifies the pharaoh with the dragon, in turn associated with the sea monster and serpent.
At Ezekiel 32:2, Pharaoh is "like a dragon in the seas; you burst forth in your rivers, trouble the waters with your feet, and foul their rivers," the pertinent term here again is תנין tanniyn (LXX δράκων drakon). As we can see, the comparison between the pharaoh and the dragon of these various battles was noted in antiquity and is given biblical authority.
"The Canaanite myth of the battle between the gods Baal and Yamm/Yam spread well beyond the borders of the Levant, making its way to Egypt. As concerns the cultural exchange between the Levant and Egypt..." "...Thus, the Baal-Yamm myth migrated to Egypt, with the Egyptian god Set/Seth substituting for Baal..." "Hence, we learn that for centuries the cultural exchange between Canaan and Egypt included myths and language. This cultural exchange went both ways, and it did not end magically when the Israelites emerged from the hill settlements in the Iron Age, around 1200 BCE." viewtopic.php?p=28396#p28396
53:38 "Your book is very conclusive ... the Exodus absolutely did not happen" - Aron Ra
54:15 "...they took a core battle and then embellished it but, this is how myths are created and if we can accept that they're myths, then, we can look, well, what do they mean, where did they get that element from, why did they incorporate that? That's what I like doing and that's the second half of the book. The first half is just tearing down the historicity, which is ultimately non-existent. Then, the second half is showing where it all comes from and why, what are the factors involved." - Acharya S/Murdock
"I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations." "I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock" - Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D's
"Yahweh and the Sun: Biblical and Archaeological Evidence for Sun Worship in Ancient Israel" (1993) by well-known Bible scholar Rev. Dr. J. Glen Taylor:
"This book is a slightly revised version of my doctoral dissertation entitled “Solar Worship in the Biblical World” which was submitted to the Graduate School of Yale University in the Spring of 1989. As may be judged from the title of that work, I had at one time planned to cover more territory than sun worship in ancient Israel, but found the material pertaining to ancient Israel so vast that I never got beyond it." - Rev. Dr. J. Glen Taylor
"At Stonehenge in England and Carnac in France, in Egypt and Yucatan, across the whole face of the earth are found mysterious ruins of ancient monuments, monuments with astronomical significance. These relics of other times are as accessible as the American Midwest and as remote as the jungles of Guatemala. Some of them were built according to celestial alignments; others were actually precision astronomical observatories ... Careful observation of the celestial rhythms was compellingly important to early peoples, and their expertise, in some respects, was not equaled in Europe until three thousand years later." - Dr. Edwin Krupp, Astronomer and Director of the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles
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