Freethought Nation

You've got to be kidding me...IIDB chose to let the fabulous Earl Doherty hit the road and that mentally disturbed Jeffrey Gibson stay? Well, that tells me all I need to know then... the IIDB are off their dial.

Plus, a dirty little secret has emerged with...

So this guy who is "Malachi151" at the IIDB forum, "rationalrevolution" at the Dawkins & Harris forums, is R.G. Price and HE HAS NO CREDENTIALS WHATSOEVER

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

What! Took this long to figure that out! Roflmao!

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"They must find it difficult...those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as the Authority." -- Gerald Massey, Egyptologist
http://www.myspace.com/skullnboner

Yeah, it was obvious that Jeffrey and several others at IIDB appeared to have some sort of mental disorders but it was a sigh of relief to hear that Doherty had the same issues and felt the same about them to the point that he left the IIDB forum for good.

Also we are now being accused of ...

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

They are questioning Bob? OMG! Now I know they have issues!

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone wastes their time over there. Next they will be degenerating Jack Spong! These people don't know anything if they can't see that someone who has put their whole life into studying something as a scholar.

And why are these people quoting scripture when they don't know what they are doing with it? They are trying to read it at face value and you can't do that! They all come off looking like Evangelicals! Geeze! Now I know why the Church didn't allow the vulgar to read it- in the wrong hands it IS dangerous.



I agree wholeheartedly. They seem to sit and criticize the more educated, yet they can't seem to take a look at themselves. Whatever the case, I don't think it would be a good idea for me to sign up and join in over there. I sometimes wonder if such people only read a book to nitpick it apart or if they read it to learn something. If they can't tear it apart then they judge it to be sound, but if they can then in their opinion it's not sound. How does anyone learn something that way? IMHO if one has doubts about something they should inquire about it, directly to the person if they can, if not the next best source. Maybe even several sources.

Of course, I have some advantages because I can go directly to the people who wrote this or that. They should try that sometime or maybe they are too afraid they will learn something.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

What? Please! Who has time for that crap? Acharya exerting influence as that? PLEASE! Is he accusing Acharya of witchcraft? As though she placed a spell on us and now we are pawns under her spell without any free choosing? Oh, the witch hunts do continue on don't they? They lied then to try people as witches and they are once again lying. Please spare me this hocus pocus stuff.

If he does produce said emails, he probably created them himself and I would still take them with a grain of salt- less actually.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

Acharya is a woman who can read (and write!) and has the sheer temerity to have a mind of her own, so obviously she is a witch of some kind.

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“It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. ”

Cutner's "Jesus: God, Man or Myth?"

I was rereading my review of Cutner's book "Jesus: God, Man or Myth?", and I was reminded of your and my treatment at IIDB. This part in particular -

In his synopsis of the historical-versus-mythical, Cutner notes that the clergy's "adversaries" were dispatched in the most unprofessional and puerile manner:

"Long ago the celebrated Dr. Bentley, in trying to dispose of Anthony Collins, had found one very fine method: convict your Freethinking opponent of fraud, ignorance, and bad scholarship, and his thesis falls to the ground. I should say rather, try to convict your opponent by this method, for some of the mud thrown is sure to stick.... By thus concentrating on mistakes of grammar or Greek, the reader is unwarily led away from the main issue which is exactly what the critic wants. Over and over again Christian controversialists have pursued this method, as if it always mattered greatly that a present tense of Greek should be the imperfect, or that a date should be conjectured as, let us say, 1702 when it ought to be 1712 in the opinion of somebody else."(27-28 )

Indeed, there is hardly a mythicist who has not experienced such treatment, even at the hands of other mythicists and/or freethinkers, another fact highlighted by Cutner, who shows that the early modern mythicists were viciously attacked not only by Christians but also by other "rationalists" and "freethinkers" who, in their attempts to remain "respectable" with the Christian elite, mindlessly fell in line and displayed a real lack of critical thinking. Professional jealousy also factors into this type of vitriol, as various scholars want their particular interpretation to become that which is accepted by the establishment.

http://truthbeknown.com/cutner.htm

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Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:

I know the feeling. Or at least got a taste of it today. I say forget them and think for yourself even if you are charged with heresy.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

Using her sorcery, Acharya has managed to piss off the 'Holy Trinity' of thought in one fell swoop - the academic establishment, the mainstream religious establishment and the esotericists. If this isn't a sign that her work is important, then I don't know what is

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“It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. ”

I've been a member over at IIDB for several years. I've been silently reading and watching all numbers of threads over there. I even have posted a few threads just to see what people thought and tried to engage in some of them intellectually on issues.

After much thought and the years I've spent just watching the posts I've pretty much come to the conclusions that you people have - it's frustrating as hell watching them do what they do. Not a single one of the 'regulars' there will budge even the least bit on their self imposed 'reality' no matter how much information you toss in their laps. And the fact that it's a forum with a large amount of anonymity makes it worse because they feel they can insult and cuss without regard to the consequences.

I read the two threads dealing with Acharys and I found them disgusting. Very few of these people that are so violently opposed to her research has read her books! They pick pieces off the internet and then want those that HAVE read the books to provide them with a online reference guide teacher for her context and references! Come on!

Just a bit about me:

I spent a few years quite a number of years ago when I was Christian and asking tons of questions researching topics. I asked many questions but could never get honest answers - I'm sure the members of the church I spoke to were doing their best but it was just rehashed propaganda with no substance to it.

So I did the research myself within the UC system in California - I spent hours and hours almost every day for months and then years on end totally mesmerized as to what I was finding out . . I went from the typical atheist viewpoint of just outright denying the information and seeing the contradictions to finally UNDERSTANDING how this religion came about and how it's been manipulated and perversed into some type of historical perspective! Kuhn and Massey finally hit the nail on the head I found - They understood that there was 'truth' in the writings but it was so distorted from what it is today that it's almost unrecognizable.

I used to carry around a notebook that people used to tease me about - full of drawings, footnotes, quotes, information, photocopies - much like the grail book in the Indiana Jones movies. I still have it.

Anyways, I just wanted to introduce myself and express my sympathies that you guys were treated like garbage over there. Anyone who goes out and truly has an open mind and follows the 'trail' will find out what you people are talking about.

I have a question. I admit to not reading anything by Acharya yet but it sounds like a mirror to Kuhn and Massey . . is there anything she's expounded on or made different conclusions on?

Welcome Jandus. You sound an awful lot like me. I've done a lot of research myself and still am doing it. I go over Acharya, Spong, Price, Harpur, etc with a highlighter, even take notes. Sometimes I feel I'm obsessed by it. I even have notes in the margins and alike. It gets to be insane sometimes and sometimes my older son accuses me of being obsessed.

Somehow I knew through everything I've studied Acharya was right, as well as Harpur, Spong, and all the rest of them. In the last few years, I've come to the same conclusion as Price- there is no historical Jesus or if there ever was, he's too buried in myth to find. It's nothing but rewritten myth and doesn't seem real to me anymore- or at least no more real than reading a North and South or Hercules.

Which has led me sort, only in a more mature outlook, back to my childhood thoughts, but also to Humanism. Not to mention, years of observing the religious and how cruel they can be to others.

However, just as I was ashamed to call myself a Christian, when I was one, due to their behaviours, I'm ashamed to call myself an atheist because of some of the behaviours I see there. I prefer the term non-theist.

I don't know what she's expounded on, but the remaining questions I had left, she answered and then some- then I came up with new question. So, yes, I guess we are in the same boat.

So again, welcome aboard.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

You just reminded me that I really need to expand my library on this topic. It's been years since I really sat down and went over the material and I'd really like to do it again - I'm sure I'll be grabbing Acharya's books to see where that goes.

I couldn't agree more with you regarding atheists. I do consider myself one but the more I listen to other atheists, for the most part, the more disgusted I get. Don't get me wrong, there are, I'm sure, quite a few out there that are respectful and are really around to learn but over at IIDB I constantly asked myself: "Is this really what an atheist is?" - Honestly, they're just as closeminded and sure of themselves as the christians they demonize IMHO.

Now, to ask a question that I did see over there in one of the threads - I remember one of the members pulled Acharya's bibliography and was tearing it apart due to the age of some of the scholars - Massey and Kuhn being among them. Since when does the age of a scholar's work have anything to do with the argument being presented?

But to be fair, have modern scholars truely answered the points that both of them (and I'm sure Acharya) has brought up? From what I've read it's always just the usual ad hominem attacks and red herrings that have absolutely nothing to do with the points being made and more about how 'incredibly ridiculous' they sound.

Educate me a bit

There are two of us now.



You're looking at one- or at least I hope you are. Non-theist is basically the same thing, though I hate to admit it sometimes.



What a wonderful new member we have here! I've thought the same thing! My questions: Exactly what has change by way of information in the Bible, Christian history, and alike? We aren't talking about rocket science, physics, or Evolution. I think saying her resources are outdated is the worst argument concerning this subject.



I don't think they have. About the only thing I've noticed that's changed, is the dating of the religious texts and that's pretty much about it. Unfortunately, religion doesn't change like science does in light of new information. You just have to find scholars that will tell the truth, not beat around the bush, not apologize (as in apologist), and avoids dogma. They are few and far between though. I'm still learning myself though.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison

Thanks for the fast responses, Mriana!

Unfortunately I won't be able to keep up for much longer since I have to work to work but I wanted to comment and toss a question or two out there.

Regarding modern vs older scholars . . I mean, honestly, are there reputable arguments to invalidate a more astrological basis for many of the concepts of the bible (more specifically the new testament) ? The historical angle isn't even something I even consider anymore . . I went over Tacitus, Josephus and the whole gang years ago and you just can't salvage that info IMHO - however in the interest of truth, I'm still listening.

I remember several months ago when my friend directed me to Zeitgeist and I started watching it . . I almost fell over . . I was like: What a wonderful way to present this! This was all info I had come across just going through the UC system libraries and it was showing it visually! Ack! I love whoever did this!

You have to forgive me, this forum is such a good outlet for me . . all this stuff has been rattling in my brain and notebooks for years but so many people just look at me as insane when I try to explain that many of the concepts seemed to be astrological in nature . . even almost lifted from the Zodiac!

To throw a curveball on the convo . . I did a lot of reading into the Dead Sea Scrolls back then as well since they seemed to be something that a lot of christians were waiting on to prove that their savior was the real deal. I came across something recently that had me stunned and wanted to know if you had heard of it or watched it:

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/pharmacrati ... ition.html

It basically is trying to make a connection between a certain type of mushroom and some of the symbolism in christianity and other religions. If I remember right they reference Allegro a lot (One of the scholars that worked first hand on the Dead Sea Scrolls) - have you heard of this? Watched it? What's your take?

Yeah! But, to be fair, I do understand that new interpretations come up that may shed light on topics that hadn't been considered before . . but honestly I guess my question is this: What has modern scholarship come up with that makes what older scholars (Kuhn, Massey, etc) have discovered wrong or invalidated? That's the question, isn't it?

The Temple of Luxor picture did a lot to show an Egyptian connection to the christian myth but over at IIDB they were arguing about the order? Huh? Next thing you know they'll be arguing that the 10 commandments couldn't possibly have come from Egypt because they're not EXACTLY the same! That's what I was thinking going over that material. I think they want an exact replica they can just look at and go: Yep, exactly the same. That's now how, what i like to call 'Mythology Evolution' works . . at least that's not what I've found out!